Non EU spouse and Irish citizen moving to Ireland

[pigeon308win]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and I already posted this questions under another topic but I thought it'd be better to post it as a new question.

I am an Australian citizen and next May my Irish wife (also Australian dual citizen) and our (Australian born) children want to move to Ireland to stay permanently. We were married in Ireland in 1995.

The Irish consulate here in Australia told me that all I have to do upon arrival is to register with GNIB and show our marriage certificate and my birth certificate. According to the consulate, they will then give me an authorisation (presumably a stamp in my passport) that will allow me to live, work and operate a business in Ireland as long as I am there with my Irish wife.

By reading other postings on this forum, I get the impression that confusion reigns supreme when it comes to the Irish government running a transparent immigration policy and I can't escape the feeling that what the Irish consulate told me is too good to be true.

Can someone here confirm whether it is indeed that simple to just rock up at the airport and register at GNIB and that I don't need D-Spouse visa, EU1 form, etc.

When answering my questions, please be aware of the recent amendments to the immigration laws (which are supoosedly making things a lot easier for people in a situation similar to mine.

Cheers.

[JAJ]

I am an Australian citizen and next May my Irish wife (also Australian dual citizen) and our (Australian born) children want to move to Ireland to stay permanently. We were married in Ireland in 1995.

If your wife was born in Ireland then your children may be Irish citizens (by descent) already - in that case, you should just get them Irish passports.

By reading other postings on this forum, I get the impression that confusion reigns supreme when it comes to the Irish government running a transparent immigration policy and I can't escape the feeling that what the Irish consulate told me is too good to be true.

Can someone here confirm whether it is indeed that simple to just rock up at the airport and register at GNIB and that I don't need D-Spouse visa, EU1 form, etc.

It definitely would not be possible in the United Kingdom. But the Irish are still in the process of constructing an immigration system pretty much from scratch. Not long ago they had so few applicants they just handled each case individually.

If you do get confirmation this will work, then bear in mind:

- you need to make sure the airline you choose is ok to carry you on a one-way ticket (otherwise buy a return)

- If you fly via London, you will have to clear United Kingdom immigration on arrival. How they will react to someone declaring an intention to live in the Republic of Ireland is unclear.

[Platinum]

Pigeon, here's what I do when I have to deal with the Irish government, in any situation: Keep calling them until you get the same answer twice. Seriously. And don't depend on the Irish consulate in Australia. Call the Immigration department in Ireland. Also, since you probably won't be able to get through, look up the Immigrant Council of Ireland, who are independent of the government, and really know their stuff. They should be able to answer your question. Oh, and try to telephone rather than e-mail. I've never had an e-mail answered from the Justic Department.

I recently called in to the immigration offices in Burgh Quay, after speaking to the justice department on the phone, and each person I talked to gave me a different answer. I swear I knew more about the process than they did!

Also, to reassure you about going through the UK on your way into Ireland- I went through Heathrow on my way to Dublin with my British husband. They detained us a little while so they could call Irish immigration and let them know we would be arriving. And that's all. They were very nice.

[scrudu]

Hi pigeon308win,

Firstly, I don't know what amendments you are referring to. New immigration laws were brought in recently for Work Permits/Visas/Authorisations etc. but I dont recall seeing anything regarding spouses of Irish citizens! There is planned legislation documentation on the DOJ website which would affect you, but this is still in the draft stages so has no bearing at this stage. If you know of other legisation, do let me know.

As your children are born of an Irish citizen, they too are actually also Irish citizens. This means they can simply apply for their Irish Passports. They can have dual nationality, so it's simply a matter of getting the passports organised.

Visa-required citizens require a visa to enter Ireland. If they wish to enter on a short term basis, they apply for a tourist visa. If granted, they will be issued with a "C-Class Tourist" visa which has a maximum validity of 90 days. If they are married to an Irish spouse and wish to come to Ireland with their Irish spouse, they instead apply for a Spouse Visa. If granted, they are issued with a "D-Class Spouse" visa which is valid for 3 months. On presenting this visa to the GNIB within 3 months of arrival, they will be issued with a "Stamp 4" residency stamp in their passport which is valid for up to 5 years. They will also get a GNIB card which states their Residency Status. The Stamp 4 permits them to work freely and confers all the other rights equal to their Irish spouse.

For you, as an Australian, you do not need a visa to enter Ireland, so you can simply enter the country on your Australian passport. From an American (spouse of Irish citizen) I spoke with, it seems that you can simply skip the visa application process, and present yourself to the GNIB within 3 months of arrival, to get your Stamp 4 and GNIB card.

After 3 years of residency you can apply for citizenship, should you wish to. Otherwise after the initial 5 years validity of your Stamp 4, you can apply for this to be extended for another 5 years.

As Platinum suggested, you should call the Dept of Justice at exactly 10AM GMT to ask your questions. Or instead the Immigrant Council of Ireland who are extremely helpful.

Best of luck

[JAJ]

As your children are born of an Irish citizen, they too are actually also Irish citizens. This means they can simply apply for their Irish Passports. They can have dual nationality, so it's simply a matter of getting the passports organised.

Except that if the Irish parent was not born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland then citizenship is not automatic and must be applied for by registration. Which is a formality, but takes time (and only becomes effective when granted).

[pigeon308win]

Just got off the phone with GNIB and they also told me that I will just have to register with them upon arrival in Ireland (I believe that means within 3 months) and that I will get a stamp in my passport that allows me to work and run a business in Ireland straight away. They also said that the stamp is valid for 5 years.

After 3 years I will be eligible for Irish citizenship, which would make a lot of sense.

I hope this helps others as well. I also hope that the person I spoke to is right.

The issue on being able to work (for short periods of time...as in weeks) in the rest of the EU is a bit vague. GNIB coldn't answer that but they suggested that I make the enquiry with each individual country in which I wish to conduct my work.

Cheers.

[JAJ]

The issue on being able to work (for short periods of time...as in weeks) in the rest of the EU is a bit vague. GNIB coldn't answer that but they suggested that I make the enquiry with each individual country in which I wish to conduct my work.

You cannot expect the Irish authorities to know about immigration laws anywhere else.

But you do need to accept that your Irish visa gives you virtually no rights in any other country, over and above your Australian passport. What exactly do you mean by "work" in the other country?

Also - check whether too much time outside the country may impact your naturalisation eligibility.

Simplest solution would be to get your Irish citizenship before you even think of living/working anywhere else.

[pigeon308win]

JAJ,

I don't expect the Irish authorities to know these things, I am merely conveying the fact that they couldn't tell me whether I was able to work in other EU counties for short periods of time.

I also accept that my Irish visa doesn't give me rights elsewhere. The nature of my work is such that I would not be able to make a comfortable living doing what I do as the market in Ireland itself is too small. I work as a freelance engineering consultant and inspector on a project by project basis and I therefore have to make myself available throughout Europe, North Afrika and the Middle East. I would be out of Ireland for a few weeks at a time and then be back for a few weeks. There is no intention to go live anywhere else (accept hotels).

I acknowledge that frequent travel outside the country could impact on the eligibility for naturalisation but I'll just have to deal with that as I go. That's often the problem if you happen to have an occupation that doesn't quite fit in the available boxes. Surely there are other people that travel a lot for their work.

You also said "Simplest solution would be to get your Irish citizenship before you even think of living/working anywhere else."

And what am I supposed to do in the mean time; flip burgers at the local Maccas for 3 years until I get an Irish passport so I can resume my normal profession? Not likely.

Ireland will remain the place of residence, my business will be based in Ireland and taxes will be paid in Ireland. The business just happens to provide it's services globally. I like to think that the Irish legislators will get their head around globalisation.

Cheers.