NZ Citizen with Irish child - what are my options?

[kiwirish]

Hi all,

My name is Shane - a proud Kiwi. I am a young dad to a 3 1/2 month old baby girl. Her mum and I met while she was over here on a working holiday. A few months after we started seeing each other, she announced she was pregnant. To make things even more complex, by the time she found out, she was in Australia and was planning to go backpacking with friends there for 3 months before flying home again, which she did. I wasn't planning to hear from her again, so it was a bit of a shock.

Anyway, she spent the time in Australia, then flew home and had the baby. Unfortunately due to me having to finish my degree, I haven't met the wee one yet, nor will I until July or so when a work contract I'm on finishes. Technology like Skype helps lessen the distance but it's been a pretty tough time missing out on her first few months and it's been even tougher for her mum, having to raise her on her own, though she has family to support her.

Anyway, so I was hoping to go over for the first time on a Visitor's visa and stay for 3 months, just to see how things go. The thing is that the girl and I aren't officially together and we never were. I do want to be with her but recognise the need to take things slow and test the waters first. We didn't get much time to know each other on an emotional level and so while I know we are compatible physically, I want to see what it is like living and parenting together before I attempt to make a more permanent move.

My question is, assuming all goes well on that first visit, what are my options? I know I can come back and apply for a working holiday visa that will give me up to a year in Ireland but what about something more permanent? Does the fact that I have an Irish child living in Ireland give me any rights to apply for any special kind of family visa? The ones I have read about so far only include spouses...

If so, can you tell me more about it? If not, what would be the easiest way to stay in Ireland long term?

I have a degree in primary teaching but the problem is that I have heard that primary teachers over there need to be able to teach the Irish language, and so I wouldn't be able to teach in the Republic of Ireland but could teach in Northern Ireland. Is that correct?

Any insights here? Reading about all the different visa types gets so confusing and I am just looking for someone to explain what options I have in a simple way.

Looking forward to traveling to Irish shores soon.

Cheers,
Shane

[Brigid from Ireland]

The parent of a child who holds EU citizenship (including Irish citizenship) has the right to live anywhere in the EU with that child, to parent the child. The child has the right to the company of the parent. The right to work is more complex.
The easiest way to stay in Ireland long term is to marry the mother of the child.
OR
To apply as a de facto partner of the mother
OR
If you have a right to the citizenship of any EU country, you have a full right to stay in Ireland, so long as you can support yourself. If you have an Irish grandparent, for example, you may be able to get an Irish passport.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/

Re: Teaching - there is a huge shortage of jobs in this area at present. The Irish language is required at primary level, unless you want to work with children who have special needs (Irish is not taught in special schools, so it is not needed there).

You would need to register with the Teaching Council. One tip is to register with the Teaching Council NOW in the Further Education section - this option is closing to you in about four weeks, so do it straight away if you want to teach in Ireland. The Further Education section of the Teaching Council currently only needs a degree to register (any degree) but is about to become much more difficult.

Either way, you are unlikely to get work as jobs are scarce in teaching at present, but your chances are actually better at third level/adult education level.

Congrats on the baba.

[Brigid from Ireland]

PS Talk to the child's mama. If she is currently getting lone parents payment, it might suit her for you to be listed on her welfare payments as a partner on a different scheme called jobseekers. You probably are not entitled to means tested welfare yourself, but she might be entitled to claim for a partner, if you were living with her (124 euro extra per week).

Basically once you get to Ireland on any type of visa, spend a few months visiting the child, it is almost impossible to deport you, as the child becomes dependent on you - the case law is a child called Adam Smith Elakanlo (I am not spelling that surname right, but it is a well known case). I could get it for you if you really needed it.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Hi Kiwirish,
I think the plan you have is a good one. Under Irish law, unmarried fathers do not have automatic guardianship, so when you come to Ireland you should apply for this. If the mother consents, you can sign a statutory declaration granting you guardianship. If not, you can apply to the local district Court. Once you are in Ireland, you can make an application for Permission to Remain based on your Irish citizen child to the Repatriation Unit, INIS, Dept Justice. This is just a letter stating you want to apply, the Department will then write to you asking for certain documentary evidence.These applications are based on the "Zambrano" judgment from the European Court of Justice. You will need a letter from your child's mother stating that you have ongoing contact with the child, are helping to financially support her, etc - or proof of address for you, your partner and the child if you are living together. This process is currently taking up to a year, but if you provide plenty of extra evidence they may process it sooner. Being a NZ citizen, the GNIB may grant you an extension of your temporary stamp if you can support yourself, give that you are non-visa required.
Long term, unfortunately Ireland is suffering a very depressed economy. It may be necessary to spend part of the year here and part of the year in NZ, or work in London and come over for weekends etc... I don't know, but it will be difficult (but not impossible!) to find work in Ireland.
Sorry I should say that if your application based on the child is successful, you will be granted Stamp 4 permission to remain which allows you to work and/ or claim social welfare. Ireland has a relatively generous social welfare system so that might tide you over for a short time anyway to spend time with your daughter here.

[kiwirish]

Thank you very much for all of your help and useful information, Brigid (daughter's middle name ) and ImmigrationLawyer. You've certainly given me some things to think about and look into as well as info I wasn't aware of before (like unmarried fathers do not have automatic guardianship - yikes. need to sort that out). Sounds like I have a few options, though it is disheartening to hear about the job situation. I am in a similar one here in that I have been unable to secure a teaching position so have had to settle for relief teaching and working as a teacher's assistant, which I am overqualified for, but it was the only thing I've managed to get.

Anyway, I am definitely committed to being as involved as I can in my daughter's upbringing, even if it is by distance. We'll see how things work out. Her mother and I are on good terms and I have been contributing what I can financially so hopefully it won't be a problem applying for guardianship and Permission to Retain once I travel there. Thank you again for your help and advice! You've been 100x more useful than any google search I have done!

[Brigid from Ireland]

No bother.
You need to have paperwork to show that you are providing for the child. If the mother agrees, you should deposit an agreed amount, each week or month, in her bank account, as child maintenance. If she does not agree to this, open an account yourself and deposit a weekly sum of money in it. Keep this account separate from all other banking, and explain that as the mother refused money, you opened a savings account for the child instead. You should try to pay 30 euro per week, as this is the amount of welfare paid for each child, so if you pay that amount it is considered evidence of supporting the child.
If you are unemployed you might pay less, but it is important that you pay even a token sum each week - it shows that you provide for the child.

[kiwirish]

No bother.
You need to have paperwork to show that you are providing for the child. If the mother agrees, you should deposit an agreed amount, each week or month, in her bank account, as child maintenance. If she does not agree to this, open an account yourself and deposit a weekly sum of money in it. Keep this account separate from all other banking, and explain that as the mother refused money, you opened a savings account for the child instead. You should try to pay 30 euro per week, as this is the amount of welfare paid for each child, so if you pay that amount it is considered evidence of supporting the child.
If you are unemployed you might pay less, but it is important that you pay even a token sum each week - it shows that you provide for the child.

Thanks. I will definitely keep that in mind. I haven't been paying on a regular basis since she would prefer for me to save for my ticket and trip there and insists that her parents have more than enough money to help, but I do still try to set money aside every week for the occasions she does ask me to contribute. It will probably be easier to open a separate account so I can deposit something in there every week and therefore keep track. Thanks for your advice.