6 years count

[UKnow]

Hi All,
I had a couple of questions before I prepare for citizenship application.
I came to the UK in April 11th 2007 on an EU family member permit ( 6 months), then applied for a residence permit ( 5 years) and was granted the approval in August 2007 ( expired in August 2012). I then applied for a permanent residence card (PR) and was granted the approval in September 2012 (28th of September is the date on the PR card). My question is:

Does the 6 years time counts from April 11th 2007 the day I entered the country on the FP, which means I can apply for citizenship in April 2013, or does it start the clock from August 2007 ( start date for the RC).

I also had another question. I had a ticket in 2008 for speeding, I was the given the option of 3 points on my license or doing a course ( 1 day ). I attended the course and paid what I had to do pay then to avoid the 3 points on my license. Will this affect my BC application and do I need to register it in my citizenship application.

Thank you for your help

[Jambo]

Hi All,
I had a couple of questions before I prepare for citizenship application.
I came to the UK in April 11th 2007 on an EU family member permit ( 6 months), then applied for a residence permit ( 5 years) and was granted the approval in August 2007 ( expired in August 2012). I then applied for a permanent residence card (PR) and was granted the approval in September 2012 (28th of September is the date on the PR card). My question is:

Does the 6 years time counts from April 11th 2007 the day I entered the country on the FP, which means I can apply for citizenship in April 2013, or does it start the clock from August 2007 ( start date for the RC).

11/04/2007.
See Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

I also had another question. I had a ticket in 2008 for speeding, I was the given the option of 3 points on my license or doing a course ( 1 day ). I attended the course and paid what I had to do pay then to avoid the 3 points on my license. Will this affect my BC application and do I need to register it in my citizenship application.

Thank you for your help

No affect and no need to mention in the application.

[UKnow]

Hi All,
I had a couple of questions before I prepare for citizenship application.
I came to the UK in April 11th 2007 on an EU family member permit ( 6 months), then applied for a residence permit ( 5 years) and was granted the approval in August 2007 ( expired in August 2012). I then applied for a permanent residence card (PR) and was granted the approval in September 2012 (28th of September is the date on the PR card). My question is:

Does the 6 years time counts from April 11th 2007 the day I entered the country on the FP, which means I can apply for citizenship in April 2013, or does it start the clock from August 2007 ( start date for the RC).

11/04/2007.
See Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

I also had another question. I had a ticket in 2008 for speeding, I was the given the option of 3 points on my license or doing a course ( 1 day ). I attended the course and paid what I had to do pay then to avoid the 3 points on my license. Will this affect my BC application and do I need to register it in my citizenship application.

Thank you for your help

No affect and no need to mention in the application.

Thanks for your help Jambo as always helpful.
P.S. I did read this document before but it does not help with how to count residence starting date. However, thanks for giving me the answer here

[TanyaUK]

Hi All,
I had a couple of questions before I prepare for citizenship application.
I came to the UK in April 11th 2007 on an EU family member permit ( 6 months), then applied for a residence permit ( 5 years) and was granted the approval in August 2007 ( expired in August 2012). I then applied for a permanent residence card (PR) and was granted the approval in September 2012 (28th of September is the date on the PR card). My question is:

Does the 6 years time counts from April 11th 2007 the day I entered the country on the FP, which means I can apply for citizenship in April 2013, or does it start the clock from August 2007 ( start date for the RC).

I also had another question. I had a ticket in 2008 for speeding, I was the given the option of 3 points on my license or doing a course ( 1 day ). I attended the course and paid what I had to do pay then to avoid the 3 points on my license. Will this affect my BC application and do I need to register it in my citizenship application.

Thank you for your help

Hi!
I had the same question and I had to ask quite a few people to get the answer. I contacted solicitors and UKBA to get information and that is what I found out:

Your time starts ticking from April 12 when you came to UK only if(!) your EU spouse was exercising her/his treaty rights at that point of time.
He or she will have a Working Card registration Certificate to prove that, which you will need to submit with your application.

Let me know if you have any more questions as I know how it can be frustrating as I have been there myself.
I am currently awaiting for my Naturalisation approval which I submitted on the same rights as yours.
Good luck!

[Jambo]

He or she will have a Working Card registration Certificate to prove that, which you will need to submit with your application.

This only applies if the EEA national is A8 national (one of the new joiners to the EU in 2004). Not applicable if the EEA national is from one of the "old" member states.

[TanyaUK]

That is correct!

[UKnow]

He or she will have a Working Card registration Certificate to prove that, which you will need to submit with your application.

This only applies if the EEA national is A8 national (one of the new joiners to the EU in 2004). Not applicable if the EEA national is from one of the "old" member states.

Thank you Both for your help. My wife is not from the A8 (Austrian), so this should not be an issue.
I will probably apply in April (after the 12th) and see how it goes. I will keep the forum updated of the progress.
TanyaUk All the best in your application and please do let us know the outcome.

[Jambo]

From your other posts in the EEA section, it seems that your PR was confirmed following an undocumented exemption of CSI. You might want to wait with the application until September (1 year after PR issue date). That would avoid having the Nationality team reviewing the EEA treaty rights period.

[UKnow]

From your other posts in the EEA section, it seems that your PR was confirmed following an undocumented exemption of CSI. You might want to wait with the application until September (1 year after PR issue date). That would avoid having the Nationality team reviewing the EEA treaty rights period.

Thanks Jambo
Why would you think this is a problem. It was their fault in the first place for not putting it in the application and the exemption is legal. I am not sure why I should be concerned?

[aledeniz]

From your other posts in the EEA section, it seems that your PR was confirmed following an undocumented exemption of CSI.

If you are referring to the exemption for those who asked a RC before a certain date, I thought that was documented. I don't have a link handy now, but I sort of remember reading about that in the UKBA site, and thinking it was going to cover me as well, as I had asked my RC in early 2006.

[Jambo]

Thanks Jambo
Why would you think this is a problem. It was their fault in the first place for not putting it in the application and the exemption is legal. I am not sure why I should be concerned?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the exemption is legal". I'm not sure there is a legal basis for that (at least not without a fight if you would have been refused).

The fact that the European team approved your PR application would probably mean you will be OK but the Nationality team might see it differently (they are not used to deal with applications that are not straight forward). I might be over cautious here but if you are not in a rush to get BC, might be simpler to wait.

[TanyaUK]

I applied through NCS and the lady phoned Nationality Team to clear the situation and they confirmed that is the date when you come to the UK with a family permit will start your clock ticking, only if your EU member was working at that time (exercising Treaty Rights).
Yes, if can apply in April 13 but they will have to review your wife's working history again (as they did when you applied for PR). Applying in September will probably speed up your application, but Nationality Team are very well aware that EU applications don't have to be held for 1 year before applying if you and your EU member already completed your 6 year residence in this country.

[UKnow]

Jambo
I see your point. However I disagree as the whole CSI would not stand in a court of law due to the fact that it does not comply with the EU regulations and I believe there is a very recent warning to the UK from the EU around this point, plus it was not mentioned in any application I submitted at that point. I also was working throughout the period and paying NHS contribution from my salary, which means I am legally entitled to any service in the NHS (myself and my family) without being a burden on the system.

[Jambo]

I wish it would be so simple.

Any ordinary resident in the UK entitles for NHS treatment. Even if you don't work regardless if you under the EEA immigration route or not. However, if you are under the EEA regulations and don't work, the HO requires CSI. The legality of the requirement is another story and as you mentioned it is currently in discussion with the European Commission. Whether an exemption should always apply in your particular case is another story.

I just suggested it might make the application smoother if you wait. It probably won’t matter but if you are not in a rush after a red passport, waiting would reduce the uncertainty.

[UKnow]

I wish it would be so simple.

Any ordinary resident in the UK entitles for NHS treatment. Even if you don't work regardless if you under the EEA immigration route or not. However, if you are under the EEA regulations and don't work, the HO requires CSI. The legality of the requirement is another story and as you mentioned it is currently in discussion with the European Commission. Whether an exemption should always apply in your particular case is another story.

I just suggested it might make the application smoother if you wait. It probably won’t matter but if you are not in a rush after a red passport, waiting would reduce the uncertainty.

Thank you Jambo for advice . I am not in a rush at all, I just thought to get it out of the way as I will do it sooner or later.
I will probably hold fire until October and apply then

[UKnow]

Hi Jambo and others.
I had a question regarding proven the 5 years residency. If I have a PR card for my wife who is the EU citizen, would that be enough and I do not need to send all documents to prove exercising her rights in UK. I mean instead of sending all documents as I did for EEA4 application

Thanks in advance

[Jambo]

Hi Jambo and others.
I had a question regarding proven the 5 years residency. If I have a PR card for my wife who is the EU citizen, would that be enough and I do not need to send all documents to prove exercising her rights in UK. I mean instead of sending all documents as I did for EEA4 application

Thanks in advance

Have you recieved the PR Confirmation following EEA4 application? Then you don't need your wife's documents (if you apply 1 year after the issue date of your confirmation).

If your wife PR card is more than 1 years old, you don't need to send her evidence again. If less than 1 years old, you will need to send it again.

[UKnow]

If your wife PR card is more than 1 years old, you don't need to send her evidence again. If less than 1 years old, you will need to send it again.[/quote]
Thanks Jambo, yes I have PR card less than a year ( sept 2012)

[UKnow]

Hi Jambo,
In your sticky where you posted information about citizenship instructions.

You have listed around the EU citizens or non EU family members the following

Q5: I'm a EEA national/family member of EEA national. When can I apply for naturalisation?

Under EEA regulations, Permanent Residence status is obtained automatically after 5 years of exercising treaty rights. You need to hold PR status for 1 year to be eligible for naturalisation (unless you are married to a BC) so effectively you can apply after 6 years of residence in the UK. Having a PR Confirmation (following EEA3/EEA4 application) is optional and is not required in order to apply for naturalisation.

You have two options:

1. Apply after 6 years in the UK. This includes 5 years of exercising treaty rights + 1 year with PR. You will need to provide proof of the 5 years (similar to what is needed in EEA3/EEA4 application). Form AN has a specific section (Q2.4-2.6) for such application.
2. Apply 1 year after the issue date of the PR Confirmation (EEA3/EEA4). In this case, there is no need to prove treaty rights again and normally just your passport (and Life in the UK test) is required.

If you hold a PR Confirmation for less than 1 year but have lived in the UK for 6 years, you can apply using option (1). The PR confirmation can only be used if you apply 1 year after the issue date.

Could I ask where did you get this information from. I read the AN application guidelines and it states on page 8 the following:

2.4 – 2.6 If you are a national of a member state of the EEA, or the family member of an EEA national, and do not have indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom you should complete these sections. Please refer to section 6 of the Booklet AN for further
guidance.

So the wording as I understand it; if you do not have a PR issued as a document, then you need to fill this section. However if you have a PR issued, it does not matter how long you had it for before you apply ( not necessary 1 year from the date of issuing the card), as long as you have spent at least 6 years in the country. Isn't that right?
Thanks for your help in advance

[boloney]

So the wording as I understand it; if you do not have a PR issued as a document, then you need to fill this section. However if you have a PR issued, it does not matter how long you had it for before you apply ( not necessary 1 year from the date of issuing the card), as long as you have spent at least 6 years in the country. Isn't that right?
Thanks for your help in advance

if you did`t hold the card for one year you have to fill this section and send prove that you hold PR for one year. if you hold the PR confirmation for one year that card will be enough and you don`t need to fill in this section.
FAQ is clear, there is nothing you can add to it.
the only think thats is`t clear is form AN, guide AN and booklet AN.

[Jambo]

It is basically very simple.

You need PR for one year (unless married to a BC). The PR confirmation following EEA3/4 only confirms that you have PR on date of issue. It doesn't state when this status was actually obtained (usually at least several months earlier). So the only way for the caseworker to know if you meet the 1 year after PR requirement is either
1. The date of issue of PR confirmation is more than 1 year old.
2. You provide evidence to prove it.

[UKnow]

It is basically very simple.

You need PR for one year (unless married to a BC). The PR confirmation following EEA3/4 only confirms that you have PR on date of issue. It doesn't state when this status was actually obtained (usually at least several months earlier). So the only way for the caseworker to know if you meet the 1 year after PR requirement is either
1. The date of issue of PR confirmation is more than 1 year old.
2. You provide evidence to prove it.

I see what you mean. However, this is true for proving residency for 6 years period but not for practising your right in the UK. Your PR is a prove of you have been in the UK practising your right. If you mean here being in the UK for 6 years, then that is a different story and could be proved by sending leas or other documents.
This should mean you do not need to fill the 2.4 to 2.6 section which mainly deal with your right of residence as EU or non EU member.