Common Assult + Driving without insurance Can I apply?

[drdrjackbauer]

hi all,

I have done some stupid thing when i was a student in university.

i have a IN10 - driving without insurace which is fined 200 pounds and 6 points in Dec/2009. (fine is given not in court, I have done CRB check, it is not showing up) (also on my counter part driving licence, it said FIXED PENNOTIY)

I have again charged with common assult + failed to produce valid ticket and fined 200 pounds in May/2010.

under the new rule i have to wait to May/2015 to apply for BC, but the new rule just came out which for a non-prision sentence, only need to wait for 3 years, and for summary-conviction, both of the conviction will spend separately.

My question is :
1) as you guys all described driving without insurace is FPN, but on the UKBA website, it does not take drivin without insurance as minor offance?
should i tell this to UKBA when i m doing the application form.?

2) under the new rules, which means i just need to wait till may/2013, which is 3 years from the common assult conviction and apply?

[Gyfrinachgar]

1) as you guys all described driving without insurace is FPN, but on the UKBA website, it does not take drivin without insurance as minor offance? should i tell this to UKBA when i m doing the application form.?

Absolutely. "You must give details of all criminal convictions (...) These include road traffic offences." (Guide AN). "Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone are not minor offences" (Booklet AN; page 15). See also here.

2) under the new rules, which means i just need to wait till may/2013, which is 3 years from the common assult conviction and apply?

Assault will severely impact the assessment of your good character, worse than many other convictions. Independent of the recent changes, you must still list all unspent convictions. Under the new guidelines, after the 3 years the caseworker can overlook it, but doesn't have to. Given your history, I would personally let the dust settle for quite a while longer.

[skstorm]

my husband mentioned his FPN for speedng on page 13 of the form. there is no specific space for it but we wanted to mention it so they didn't think we were trying to hide it and NCS said this wouldn't hurt the application. We were also supplying his Driving licence and it is quite clearly on there anyway.
better to put it down in my opinion - how they will react to it I really don't know

[drdrjackbauer]

Thanks for all useful reply

I understand common assault is a serious thing, but on the new rule , it clearly states that for non-prison conviction , you only need to wait 3 years, and u can apply.

I agree that let it Seattle for a while is a good idea, but there is no specific guideline how what happen if applicant was wait for 4/5/6 years! It is like, if u bake cake, bake 10/20/30 minutes , the result is different, but for conviction， there is no guideline for that but just need to wait 3 years to apply!

[Gyfrinachgar]

I understand common assault is a serious thing, but on the new rule , it clearly states that for non-prison conviction , you only need to wait 3 years, and u can apply. I agree that let it Seattle for a while is a good idea, but there is no specific guideline how what happen if applicant was wait for 4/5/6 years! It is like, if u bake cake, bake 10/20/30 minutes , the result is different, but for conviction， there is no guideline for that but just need to wait 3 years to apply!

Yes, there is a very clear threshold. Wait until it becomes spent - easy as that. All the new rules mean is that the caseworkers do not apply the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as sole basis for assessment anymore (see here for another relevant discussion: New "Good Character" rules: Too good to be true?. Once the offence becomes spent, your chances of sucessfully applying rise significantly. If you want to apply after 3 years you can, and you may be successful - but with an assault conviction, I have my doubts.

[drdrjackbauer]

Yes, there is a very clear threshold. Wait until it becomes spent - easy as that. All the new rules mean is that the caseworkers do not apply the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as sole basis for assessment anymore (see here for another relevant discussion: New "Good Character" rules: Too good to be true?. Once the offence becomes spent, your chances of sucessfully applying rise significantly. If you want to apply after 3 years you can, and you may be successful - but with an assault conviction, I have my doubts.

thank you Gyfrinachgar, that replys is very useful

I have 1 question in regard to what you said "but with an assault conviction, I have my doubts":

1) why is that "common assult" can result in refusing the application if I apply after 3 years?

2) if they refuse after 3 years of common assult, can i take it as it is not possible for me to become uk citizen forever?

3) common assult with just a fine, should be much less serious than in prision conviction, and even people who staied in prison for less than 4 years can apply (just waited a bit longer), and I can not?

Please help me with it.

Becuase the UKBA can not just publish a new rule said a non-prision conviction can wait 3 year to apply and then refuse someone who have a non-prision conviction and waited 3 years. am i correct?

[Gyfrinachgar]

If you look at the wording, all they changed was basically to introduce more room for discretion. Okay, let me put things as simply as I can.

Your assault conviction will...

under the old regulations:
<5 years: cause refusal
>5 years: not cause refusal (conviction spent)

under the new regulations:
<3 years: cause refusal
3-5 years: probably cause refusal
>5 years: not cause refusal (conviction spent)

[TOM_TOM]

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974
Your assault conviction will...

under the old regulations:
<5 years: cause refusal
>5 years: not cause refusal (conviction spent)

(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follow
>1 year: you conviction spent
<3 years: cause refusal
>3 years: not cause refusal
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

[drdrjackbauer]

If you look at the wording, all they changed was basically to introduce more room for discretion. Okay, let me put things as simply as I can.

Your assault conviction will...

under the old regulations:
<5 years: cause refusal
>5 years: not cause refusal (conviction spent)

under the new regulations:
<3 years: cause refusal
3-5 years: probably cause refusal
>5 years: not cause refusal (conviction spent)

so it is safe to say, if i wait another 2 years which is 5 years in total. the conviction will have no impact on my application any more , that is cool

but on the ukba website, the ROA has nothing to do with this anymore. the ukba use its new rule ...

[Gyfrinachgar]

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 2012
>1 year: you conviction spent
<3 years: cause refusal
>3 years: not cause refusal

Firstly, there is no such thing as a "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 2012". You probably refer to the "Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012"? Secondly, where exactly did you get those numbers from??

[Gyfrinachgar]

so it is safe to say, if i wait another 2 years which is 5 years in total. the conviction will have no impact on my application any more , that is cool

Yes, personally, I would advise waiting until it is 5 years in the past, then you can be pretty sure that the conviction will have no impact on your application. You can try beforehand, but I it is more risky, especially as currently little experience/feedback is available on how HO will implement this in practice. You are of course most welcome to try, in that case please update us of your experience - if you don't mind acting as a guinea pig.

[TOM_TOM]

Establishment or alteration of rehabilitation periods.(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follows.

A fine The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed The end of the period of 6 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

[TOM_TOM]

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 2012
>1 year: you conviction spent
<3 years: cause refusal
>3 years: not cause refusal

Firstly, there is no such thing as a "Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 2012". You probably refer to the "Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012"? Secondly, where exactly did you get those numbers from??

New reforms to help reduce reoffending(SEE THE NEWS UNDER & NEW ONE START LAST DECEMBER, 2012)

http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/press-re ... ease030212


NEW REFORM:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted


That why HO changed policy!!

[drdrjackbauer]

thank you all for important helpful infos

Establishment or alteration of rehabilitation periods.(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follows.

A fine The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed The end of the period of 6 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

Yes, personally, I would advise waiting until it is 5 years in the past, then you can be pretty sure that the conviction will have no impact on your application. You can try beforehand, but I it is more risky, especially as currently little experience/feedback is available on how HO will implement this in practice. You are of course most welcome to try, in that case please update us of your experience - if you don't mind acting as a guinea pig.

of course i wont mind to act like a guinea pig LOL

but just to make sure that one thing that:

if i made a application in may(which is 3 years is up), and refused, does it mean I can not make furthure application in like 5 years? 10 years or something?

Tomtom, thank you for providing the info, but this new rule have not been implemented and even it is implemented it is nothing to do with the immgration matter. (I might be wrong but this is how i take it)

[Gyfrinachgar]

if i made a application in may(which is 3 years is up), and refused, does it mean I can not make furthure application in like 5 years? 10 years or something?

No. You are only banned 10 years (they don't call it that way, but that is what it effectively is) for "concealing the truth", i.e. if you deliberately provide wrong/misleading/incomplete information to increase your chances. Other than that you can bombard them with applications (a bit costly, but otherwise fine).

This is really an interesting change, and I am curious what happens.
Looking forward to your updates.

[TOM_TOM]

thank you all for important helpful infos

Establishment or alteration of rehabilitation periods.(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follows.

A fine The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed The end of the period of 6 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

Yes, personally, I would advise waiting until it is 5 years in the past, then you can be pretty sure that the conviction will have no impact on your application. You can try beforehand, but I it is more risky, especially as currently little experience/feedback is available on how HO will implement this in practice. You are of course most welcome to try, in that case please update us of your experience - if you don't mind acting as a guinea pig.

of course i wont mind to act like a guinea pig LOL

but just to make sure that one thing that:

if i made a application in may(which is 3 years is up), and refused, does it mean I can not make furthure application in like 5 years? 10 years or something?

Tomtom, thank you for providing the info, but this new rule have not been implemented and even it is implemented it is nothing to do with the immgration matter. (I might be wrong but this is how i take it)

You are welcome!

This new rule have been implemented December, 2012, Pls go to websit:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

But you still need to double check with one of law firm, just in case.

[drdrjackbauer]

drdrjackbauer wrote:
thank you all for important helpful infos

Quote:
Establishment or alteration of rehabilitation periods.(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follows.

A fine The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed The end of the period of 6 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted


Quote:
Yes, personally, I would advise waiting until it is 5 years in the past, then you can be pretty sure that the conviction will have no impact on your application. You can try beforehand, but I it is more risky, especially as currently little experience/feedback is available on how HO will implement this in practice. You are of course most welcome to try, in that case please update us of your experience - if you don't mind acting as a guinea pig.


of course i wont mind to act like a guinea pig LOL

but just to make sure that one thing that:

if i made a application in may(which is 3 years is up), and refused, does it mean I can not make furthure application in like 5 years? 10 years or something?

Tomtom, thank you for providing the info, but this new rule have not been implemented and even it is implemented it is nothing to do with the immgration matter. (I might be wrong but this is how i take it)

You are welcome!

This new rule have been implemented December, 2012, Pls go to websit:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

omg, lol

I saw the web link, but it is the bill. I can not find a place said this new law has been effect already?

anyone else on the forum, please confrim that this new law has been in effect now ? please[/quote]

[TOM_TOM]

drdrjackbauer wrote:
thank you all for important helpful infos

Quote:
Establishment or alteration of rehabilitation periods.(1)The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is amended as follows.

A fine The end of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed The end of the period of 6 months beginning with the date of the conviction in respect of which the sentence is imposed

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted


Quote:
Yes, personally, I would advise waiting until it is 5 years in the past, then you can be pretty sure that the conviction will have no impact on your application. You can try beforehand, but I it is more risky, especially as currently little experience/feedback is available on how HO will implement this in practice. You are of course most welcome to try, in that case please update us of your experience - if you don't mind acting as a guinea pig.


of course i wont mind to act like a guinea pig LOL

but just to make sure that one thing that:

if i made a application in may(which is 3 years is up), and refused, does it mean I can not make furthure application in like 5 years? 10 years or something?

Tomtom, thank you for providing the info, but this new rule have not been implemented and even it is implemented it is nothing to do with the immgration matter. (I might be wrong but this is how i take it)

You are welcome!

This new rule have been implemented December, 2012, Pls go to websit:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

omg, lol

I saw the web link, but it is the bill. I can not find a place said this new law has been effect already?

anyone else on the forum, please confrim that this new law has been in effect now ? please

[/quote]

A non-custodial offence
Applications should be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years(from HO guide pdf).------- If the new reform not implemented, why HO say 3 years, coz you conviction still within 5 years peroid which not spent yet!!

[TOM_TOM]

From HO pdf

3.1 Applications made on or after 13 December 20123.1.1 From the 1 October 2012, certain immigration and nationality decisions were exempt from s4 of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. As a result, the concept of a conviction becoming "spent" no longer applies when making an assessment of good character. Therefore, when dealing with nationality applications made on or after 13 December 2012, caseworkers should refuse an individual who has a conviction within the relevant sentence based threshold as detailed in the table below.

Sentence Impact on Nationality applications
1. 4 years or more imprisonment Application should be refused, regardless of when the conviction occurred.

2. Between 12 months and 4 years imprisonment Application should be refused unless 15 years have passed since the end of the sentence.

3. Up to 12 months imprisonment in the last 7 years Applications should be refused unless 7 years have passed since the end of the sentence.

4. A non-custodial offence Applications should be refused if the conviction occurred in the last 3 years.

[drdrjackbauer]

hi all, I just heard back from my immgration lawyer 1 minutes ago. Here is her replys:

-------
I have looked into your matter.

Fixed Penalty Notices are not classed as convictions. These are minor convictions and are disregarded. Your conviction of driving without Insurance is classed as a fixed penalty offence as you did not attend court and you were fined a fixed penalty of £200 and 6 points on your licence.

Your conviction on 04/05/2010 for common assault is classed as a Non Custodial Offence as you attended the Magistrates court. You were convicted of common assault and fined.
This offence will be regarded in a Naturalisation application, and if the application is made 3 years from the date of conviction then your application will be refused.

You mentioned you had 2 convictions on 04/05/2010. Each conviction has a threshold of 3 years from the date of conviction. Therefore, you would need to wait until 3 years have lapsed from the date of your conviction to make an application. It is not 3 years plus another 3 years!

Your convictions were made on 04/05/2010. Therefore, you should make an application for naturalisation after 04/05/2013. Any application made before this date will be refused.

I hope the above information has been helpful.

Kind Regards,

-------

[TOM_TOM]

hi all, I just heard back from my immgration lawyer 1 minutes ago. Here is her replys:

-------
I have looked into your matter.

Fixed Penalty Notices are not classed as convictions. These are minor convictions and are disregarded. Your conviction of driving without Insurance is classed as a fixed penalty offence as you did not attend court and you were fined a fixed penalty of £200 and 6 points on your licence.

Your conviction on 04/05/2010 for common assault is classed as a Non Custodial Offence as you attended the Magistrates court. You were convicted of common assault and fined.
This offence will be regarded in a Naturalisation application, and if the application is made 3 years from the date of conviction then your application will be refused.

You mentioned you had 2 convictions on 04/05/2010. Each conviction has a threshold of 3 years from the date of conviction. Therefore, you would need to wait until 3 years have lapsed from the date of your conviction to make an application. It is not 3 years plus another 3 years!

Your convictions were made on 04/05/2010. Therefore, you should make an application for naturalisation after 04/05/2013. Any application made before this date will be refused.

I hope the above information has been helpful.

Kind Regards,

-------

Proved

[drdrjackbauer]

well wot can i say Tom Tom I love YOU

just really realy kinda regrt of wot i am doing when i was very young.

the IN10 and common assult train ticket checker all happen in that year that I study in st andrews university.

i guess man needs to grow up LOL

we I just really hope that UKBA will bar anyone with conviction to join their family!!!

I have been working full time in a software development company for 2 years, pay my tax everything. and i live here sice like 9, i think i have every right to live in this country as other ppl.

[TOM_TOM]

well wot can i say Tom Tom I love YOU

just really realy kinda regrt of wot i am doing when i was very young.

the IN10 and common assult train ticket checker all happen in that year that I study in st andrews university.

i guess man needs to grow up LOL

we I just really hope that UKBA will bar anyone with conviction to join their family!!!

I have been working full time in a software development company for 2 years, pay my tax everything. and i live here sice like 9, i think i have every right to live in this country as other ppl.

You company does not do a CRB check!!! how luck you are!!

[drdrjackbauer]

well this is very interesting.

i told my manager the other day, and my manager said "dont worry, everybody drinks and drive and then fight" you are in glasgow, you have to fight your way out , what do you expect

I am really happen when I heard it lOL

[drdrjackbauer]

well nothing is easy i hope the ukba can greate me the application