Are these new changes retrospective? Can these be chalenged?

[rizwan567]

Are these new changes retrospective? I mean howcome new rules can be applied on applications which are already sent before 31 Jan 13. After the HSMP JR and ILR policy judgement I have observed that UKBA when announce changes to their policy they announce that this change will not affect the applications already submitted (as happened to Tier 4 policy many times recently) but this is not the case on the changes of 31 Jan 2013.

I have a question, specially from these who are familiar with HSMP Judicial review case. I mean can these retrospective changes be challenged in similar way as HSMP changes of 6 Nov 2006 were challenged and UKBA had to reverse them.

For example, If someone's case is refused on the basis that funds have been withdrawn from the account then can s/he challenge the decision on the basis that this was not the rule when s/he applied?

Your contribution will be appreciated. Specially of those who are aware of HSMP JR and HSMP JR ILR cases.

[MNaveedonline]

well. After taking Enterprenuer visa, I will go back to Pak. for 2months holidays and when i will come back visa officer check 50,000 pounds funds again for business.

[RizKCB]

Rizwan567

The changes made to Enterpreneur are not described as changes. These are strict checks which are put in place to cut down the system abuse without altering our evidences.

For example
They could ask same 200,000 OR 50,000 bank statement with up-to-date copy. Because they assume that what we have already submitted with our applications will remain same as before OR it could change as business progress.

Another example
Will you like to disturb your maintenance funds until your decisions come out? OR If they ask you to submit again your latest maintenance funds' statement just in case? So what is changed from HO side... nothing but the same thing requested again with updates. It already happened with many applicants.

According to HO:

"The changes in this Statement will take effect on 31 January 2013. With regard to the change set out in paragraph 9 of this Statement, this is a minor change and the only change which alters the evidence which must be initially submitted by applicants. This change will not apply to applications which have been made before 31 January 2013."

In the above paragraph they only identify a minor change in paragraph 9. That paragraph is as follow:

“(9) confirmation that the money will remain available to the applicant until such time as it is transferred to the applicant or the applicant’s business.”

This is an actual change which would not effect those files which are already submitted. It applies to those who have third parties' funding. It was not required before.

Actually the biggest compensation given is 28 days time for already submitted files. It is the time to rectify anything which was not strictly said at first place. Genuine applicants would not struck here. Just to support my examples: Doesn't matter if you again put your statement to 200,000 OR 50,000 with a valid justification why you taken them out before. But in case of maintenance funds, 3 months period once broken couldn't be reversed in 28 days.

Therefore I think it would be a great luck if something is reversed for those who already submitted files.

[RizKCB]

well. After taking Enterprenuer visa, I will go back to Pak. for 2months holidays and when i will come back visa officer check 50,000 pounds funds again for business.

Visa Officer could ask you anything about your intentions to enter in the country related to your visa category. They act as sole authority to your entry in the country. Every stamp include the ID of Visa Officer. If she is not satisfied, it is discussed with seniors to make further decisions.

Normally they question about nature of business or work in UK. To ask about 50000 availability is less concerned. It all depends on them but one thing is clear 'Most of the things we tell them about ourselves by our answers or body language'.

[rehan01]

Are these new changes retrospective? I mean howcome new rules can be applied on applications which are already sent before 31 Jan 13. After the HSMP JR and ILR policy judgement I have observed that UKBA when announce changes to their policy they announce that this change will not affect the applications already submitted (as happened to Tier 4 policy many times recently) but this is not the case on the changes of 31 Jan 2013.

I have a question, specially from these who are familiar with HSMP Judicial review case. I mean can these retrospective changes be challenged in similar way as HSMP changes of 6 Nov 2006 were challenged and UKBA had to reverse them.

For example, If someone's case is refused on the basis that funds have been withdrawn from the account then can s/he challenge the decision on the basis that this was not the rule when s/he applied?

Your contribution will be appreciated. Specially of those who are aware of HSMP JR and HSMP JR ILR cases.

Totally Agree with RizKCB very nicely and detailed explanation thanks you sir much appreciated.

regards

[rizwan567]

I can see and understand where you are coming from and the point you are making. I completely agree with it. Changes are logical. But also try to see where I am coming from and the point I am making.

Now the question is, if there was no change then why they had to get parliamentary approval..

Rizwan567

The changes made to Enterpreneur are not described as changes. These are strict checks which are put in place to cut down the system abuse without altering our evidences.

For example
They could ask same 200,000 OR 50,000 bank statement with up-to-date copy. Because they assume that what we have already submitted with our applications will remain same as before OR it could change as business progress.

[rizwan567]

Change of rules definately means that previously If the money was withdrawn after getting the 50k or 200k bank statement, UKBA had to approve the application even if the funds were withdrawn. If not then why on earth they are doing this practice

What I am saying is, if the applicant gets the refusal on the basis that money has been withdrawn or no longer available, can he challenge the decision on the basis that when s/he made the application rules were different and same rules should be applied on me and changes should not be retrospective.

OR a group can be formed and challenge can be put up against retrospective changes as was done in HSMP JR case.

[RizKCB]

The point is that the funds are available to you for which you have claimed points. If they refuse you over it, then what will you request to judge?..... I had withdrawn money which is no more available to me! Definitely then they will not give you points for it which is ultimate refusal.

If you say that the money is available to you then why don't you put that money again in your account in 28 days? You can take out the money before decision on different basis, you can justify.

It is the story until you do not get visa. After getting visa, your point seems to be valid. Previously they asked to show the access of money and investing it in the business now they say that it must be through out in the bank with incremental decrement if and only if you spend in business.

[tier1enterpreneur]

Hello Friends.
I almost went into depression and built up a lot of stress and anxiety with the damm changes.
Can someone please help me answer my doubts as I am not clear about them.
Firstly I am genuine that I am going to invest the money here soon after the visa is issued.
If I knew the money was to be kept throughout I would have left it untouched.
But with business man point of view no one keeps the money in the account to let it stale.
I had withdrawn 25000 after one month of application but as I am still working to the balance has gone up to 30000.
Arranging the 20000 is not a problem I am worried if it will be acceptable if I arrange the money to be kept in the bank account again. I see some people mention about the 28days to rectify can some one please highlight where does it say if the funds are touched you can rectify within 28 days and leave the funds throughout.

Do I still hold the chance to get the visa as I have only 30 K in the account ...
I m so confused
Please help.

Thanks.

[alex87]

To be honest, I am applying soon and cannot support any action which will will cause issues for me. Any court action by past applicants could potentially cause trouble for future applicants, and hence I am better off just focusing on strengthening my application at this point.

If you've withdrawn money from your accounts, put it back in within 28 days, etc, and you will be fine. Don't cause difficulties for future applicants.

[RizKCB]

Hello Friends.
I almost went into depression and built up a lot of stress and anxiety with the damm changes.
Can someone please help me answer my doubts as I am not clear about them.
Firstly I am genuine that I am going to invest the money here soon after the visa is issued.
If I knew the money was to be kept throughout I would have left it untouched.
But with business man point of view no one keeps the money in the account to let it stale.
I had withdrawn 25000 after one month of application but as I am still working to the balance has gone up to 30000.
Arranging the 20000 is not a problem I am worried if it will be acceptable if I arrange the money to be kept in the bank account again. I see some people mention about the 28days to rectify can some one please highlight where does it say if the funds are touched you can rectify within 28 days and leave the funds throughout.

Do I still hold the chance to get the visa as I have only 30 K in the account ...
I m so confused
Please help.

Thanks.

Many guys are in same position, either way could be better:
(This is not any legal advice but just findings of mutual discussions)
- Getting back all funds with justification why taken out
- If funds are less and they are invested in business then evidences

Otherwise... wait and see

[kashnex]

To be honest, I am applying soon and cannot support any action which will will cause issues for me. Any court action by past applicants could potentially cause trouble for future applicants, and hence I am better off just focusing on strengthening my application at this point.

If you've withdrawn money from your accounts, put it back in within 28 days, etc, and you will be fine. Don't cause difficulties for future applicants.

Totally agreed

[rehan01]

Hello Friends.
I almost went into depression and built up a lot of stress and anxiety with the damm changes.
Can someone please help me answer my doubts as I am not clear about them.
Firstly I am genuine that I am going to invest the money here soon after the visa is issued.
If I knew the money was to be kept throughout I would have left it untouched.
But with business man point of view no one keeps the money in the account to let it stale.
I had withdrawn 25000 after one month of application but as I am still working to the balance has gone up to 30000.
Arranging the 20000 is not a problem I am worried if it will be acceptable if I arrange the money to be kept in the bank account again. I see some people mention about the 28days to rectify can some one please highlight where does it say if the funds are touched you can rectify within 28 days and leave the funds throughout.

Do I still hold the chance to get the visa as I have only 30 K in the account ...
I m so confused
Please help.

Thanks.

Many guys are in same position, either way could be better:
(This is not any legal advice but just findings of mutual discussions)
- Getting back all funds with justification why taken out
- If funds are less and they are invested in business then evidences

Otherwise... wait and see

Totally Agree with RizKCB .... get the balance back to 50k this should be first priority and do not let the balance go less than 50 until you get decision

regards

[alimohmand]

Completely confused. Why the fuss rules are straight forward you need to have access to the funds. And lets put it straight there are criminal gangs receiving massive profit/interest out of their poxy little ventures and which you guys are paying happily.

This was bound to happen only in the month of December prior to the changes 3000 applicants were received for Tier 1 Entrepreneur Route.

Do you think HO is Dumb not to understand.

Anyways with all the frustration I dont see no point of taking anything to the court as there are no grounds as required by UKBA you need to have access to the funds regardless its before your application or while your application is under the process with them.

All the best to geniune applicants.

[la]

I applied for the visa on 200k and under assumption that money can be invested on need basis for business over three years . If business does not grow properly, then I thought going back to my home country as I will not be eligible to extension.This is what UK BA old rules says.

Current UK BA rules are quick contradictory to previous rules.

I can not get that huge money 200k in 28 working days to the account and maintain through out three years even if business does not require it.

Certainly a true business man will invest the money when business needs it but not on force that to maintaining 200k huge money through out three years in the bank accounts for the sake of bull shit visa extension which would be financial loss to the true business man .

We need to definitely go to court on this. It is impacting our career. Wasting my time.