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EEA Famil Permit- applied today 16.01.13

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

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Post by vinny » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:21 am

Aine002 wrote:I therefore refuse your EEA family permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the immigration.
Ask them on how/where precisely which subsection(s) your husband fails to meet the requirements of Regulation 12.

As far as I can see, 12(1)(a)(ii) is satisfied because of 13. 13(3)(a) is not applicable because 19(3)(b) is not applicable. 13(3)(b) is not applicable because he has the right to reside in the UK until he becomes an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom.

12(1)(b)(i) is satisfied because he has a polish residence permit.
Last edited by vinny on Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Graham Weifang
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Post by Graham Weifang » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:28 am

Hello Aine,

I hope you get this sorted.
The UKBA are being pigs about this.
I am by no means any where near close to knowing what these guys know on here, but even I think that the UKBA have made a mistake.
One of you is Polish, so that is EEA, you are married, so that in my limited scope seems to have the family permit covered.

Hope it works out for you.

GW

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Post by Aine002 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:50 am

Thank you everyone!
I made new topic about traveling to UK without EEa FP or without visa, but i will ask also here.
I don't have any time left now so we will not appeal. We are thinking to try to fly to UK just with our marriage certificate and passports. Any of you know anyone who did that and succeed? We will try and we will see what's gonna happen :)

On this website: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ , somebody wrot this:

Important update on UK Border Agency procedures in case of absence of EEA Family Permit in passports of VISA NATIONALS entering the UK with their EEA spouse.
1.
While NON-VISA nationals receive a 6 months code 1A stamp at the border, VISA NATIONALS receive a TWO MONTH, CODE 1 stamp at the border. Border Agency officials will refuse to place a SIX MONTH stamp in a VISA NATIONAL’S passport. The new guidance says that a TWO MONTH stamp is sufficient to allow entry of non-EEA, VISA NATIONAL in order to facilitate further application of this person for a residence card.
I have entered with my wife 2 days ago via Heathrow. Procedure is simple and straightforward.
2.
UK Border agency now maintains a 24/7 telephone line for transport carriers to verify entry eligibility of those passengers who do not hold straight-forward visas and family permits. All airlines have the number that they must contact. UKBA will review documents faxed to them by the airline and direct airline to allow boarding in case the passenger meets EEA guidelines/UKBA procedures even if no visa is held. If your airline refuses to let you on board, insist that they contact UKBA Carrier Liaison team. This team is there for this specific reason.

Anyone know anything about this?

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:35 pm

Aine002 wrote:Thank you everyone!
I made new topic about traveling to UK without EEa FP or without visa, but i will ask also here.
I don't have any time left now so we will not appeal. We are thinking to try to fly to UK just with our marriage certificate and passports. Any of you know anyone who did that and succeed? We will try and we will see what's gonna happen :)

On this website: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ , somebody wrot this:

Important update on UK Border Agency procedures in case of absence of EEA Family Permit in passports of VISA NATIONALS entering the UK with their EEA spouse.
1.
While NON-VISA nationals receive a 6 months code 1A stamp at the border, VISA NATIONALS receive a TWO MONTH, CODE 1 stamp at the border. Border Agency officials will refuse to place a SIX MONTH stamp in a VISA NATIONAL’S passport. The new guidance says that a TWO MONTH stamp is sufficient to allow entry of non-EEA, VISA NATIONAL in order to facilitate further application of this person for a residence card.
I have entered with my wife 2 days ago via Heathrow. Procedure is simple and straightforward.
2.
UK Border agency now maintains a 24/7 telephone line for transport carriers to verify entry eligibility of those passengers who do not hold straight-forward visas and family permits. All airlines have the number that they must contact. UKBA will review documents faxed to them by the airline and direct airline to allow boarding in case the passenger meets EEA guidelines/UKBA procedures even if no visa is held. If your airline refuses to let you on board, insist that they contact UKBA Carrier Liaison team. This team is there for this specific reason.

Anyone know anything about this?
Your problem may be getting an airline to let you board.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:38 pm

Flying is going to be difficult. If you can find a cheap enough ticket, then by all means try, but I suspect you will have to be a very smooth talking person to make it onto the plane.

Otherwise bus or train to the UK would be the best way to go. Or car.

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Post by ukforever » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Flying is going to be difficult. If you can find a cheap enough ticket, then by all means try, but I suspect you will have to be a very smooth talking person to make it onto the plane.

Otherwise bus or train to the UK would be the best way to go. Or car.
Or she can fly to france as she can with her husband,i'm pretty sure they will let him travel with his wife as he holds a residence card in poland so technically he doesn't need visa to travel there and then they can take a a bus or train from lille/paris to calais and they can acces the ferry by foot an they could pass the borders and get a code 1A stamp,i think the chances to fly to the uk direct are slim,so maybe its the only way they can make it.
AINEE,i'm sure u can find out more on the forum about cases where couples got in the uk through calais but just expect to be roughen up in the borders by ukba bullies.
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Post by ukforever » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:21 pm

UK------++++-------****

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Post by Aine002 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:26 pm

Hi everyone!
Ukforever thank you so much for all those stories. Thank you to all of you for your advise. We bought tickets to UK for Tuesday 19/02/2013. I will post and update as soon as this day will past :) Honestly i don't have much hope to pass true bu we found cheap tickets so we decided to give it a go :)

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:05 pm

You will need to go early to the airport and be very patient, repeatedly educating everyone you talk with, politely refusing to take no for an answer, and writing down the full name of everyone you talk with.

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Post by ukforever » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:39 pm

Aine002 wrote:Hi everyone!
Ukforever thank you so much for all those stories. Thank you to all of you for your advise. We bought tickets to UK for Tuesday 19/02/2013. I will post and update as soon as this day will past :) Honestly i don't have much hope to pass true bu we found cheap tickets so we decided to give it a go :)

no problem AINE,good luck and keep us updated.
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Post by tulipwelyasmina » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:01 pm

good luck aine

any news pawel? i wonder how did it go?

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Post by Pablito » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:26 am

After my email complaint to clearance manager last Friday, my wife got reply yesterday and she was invited for an interview on Monday.

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Post by frei » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:55 pm

Pablito wrote:After my email complaint to clearance manager last Friday, my wife got reply yesterday and she was invited for an interview on Monday.
Great stuff, if you could tell how you got the email contact of the clearance manager?

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Post by Pablito » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:27 pm

Once you select your country of application from this link:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/countries/ on the left hand side you will see selection "contact us" click on it and from sub-menu chose "complaints" although some countries offer only writing complaints by mail in my case i was able to send an email, there are usually two emails but the one for VFS or Worldbridge is rather useless.

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Post by frei » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Pablito wrote:Once you select your country of application from this link:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/countries/ on the left hand side you will see selection "contact us" click on it and from sub-menu chose "complaints" although some countries offer only writing complaints by mail in my case i was able to send an email, there are usually two emails but the one for VFS or Worldbridge is rather useless.
Thanks for the information pablito.

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Post by tulipwelyasmina » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:03 pm

that's good i suppose, do you have any idea what kind of questions she would be asked ?

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Post by Pablito » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:03 pm

The Decision

You married Polish national in the Philippines in August 2012 and now wish to travel back with him for a visit. You were both previously working in the UK and your husband has a resident's card as EU national.

From evidence submitted and from an interview with you in person. I am not satisfied that you have a genuine, subsisting relationship with your Polish sponsor and that this is not a marriage of convenience to facilitate your return to UK.

The only evidence of the relationship is the marriage certificate and a few photographs together you brought to interview. You claim to have lived together as a couple in the UK but have no evidence of that such as a joint tenancy agreement or joint bills. There is no evidence you resided at the same address even let alone as a couple. You have never visited your sponsor's family and seemingly no family attended the wedding which took place in an office here. You have no joint finances or joint assets and there is no evidence of any financial support between you and your husband.


Although your previous adverse UK immigration history may not be grounds for refusal in itself, ehich pointed out at interview, your credibility remains under scrutiny. You could not adequately account for the fact that you used deception to gain entry In the past and remained in the UK to work there long after leave as a student had been curtailed. Such deception inevitably affects your credibility now. You only married your sponsor after being removed form UK. Although he has traveled to the Philippines long before he met you. There is no evidence that you are living together as a genuine couple here. Your sponsor only has visitor status and has not secured longer term stay as your husband.


I therefore refuse your EEA family permit application because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration(European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

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Post by Pablito » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:11 pm

I don't know if it was good thing for me to do but here is what response I sent to Entry Clearance Manager:


Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to you to request that you kindly reconsider my application for EEA Family Permit and overturn the decision made by ECO.
Both with my husband we believe that decision made was unjustified and made solely out of prejudice to my previous immigration history.

ECO had concluded marriage of convenience on the mere facts of my husband’s family not being able to participate on the wedding ceremony and me not visiting them in Poland( My husband’s mom has serious health condition and travel to the Philippines is very long and its a health issue) We believe that these are far from any real criterias to decide genuine nature of our marriage. Moreover ECO did not even recognise all the evidence I provided to prove that our marriage is substantial, for example: proof of cohabitation in Mandaluyong City together with my husband we provided since the day of his arrival in The Philippines, visa stamps, certification from the Barangay that we have lived together since June 23, 2012.

Before I returned to the Philippines, both of us were in the relationship, we have provided photos which clearly show places in London, Blackpool, Edinburgh also there were photographs of my parents attending our civil wedding ceremony and my family. Along with the application form I had attached copy of my husband’s passport which clearly states that the passport was issued in Edinburgh the place where my student visa was granted and where I lived. ECO refused even acknowledging those facts in her refusal letter, but only stating that we should provide bank statements or tenancy agreement during our stay in UK, although at that time we were not even married and didn't see that as a necessity in our relationship.

It was also pointed out that my husband hasn’t secured his stay in the Philippines, this and the fact that we didn’t provide evidence of financial support. Under Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 6 both with my husband are not required to prove any financial sustainability for the purpose of travel to another member state for period not exceeding 3 months, nor my husband is required to apply for residence in the Philippines if we don’t wish to stay here. It is up to our personal choice whether we wish to stay here or exercise freedom of movement and my derivative rights from my husband.

During the period since I applied for EEA Family Permit, ECO had never even contacted me to request for any additional evidence regarding our marriage, nor anyone even requested for it during the call from the embassy when I was invited for an interview and I had to complain since the guidelines for application’s decision was already over 15 days. Both with my husband we live approximately 9km from the embassy, we would welcome The immigration officers to visit us here and find out that we live together, but sadly nobody ever came.

Both with my husband we also can’t understand suggestion made by ECO about my husband being in the Philippines long before we met and what has it got to do with anything or how it could affect our marriage being not genuine. My husband could visit Philippines long before he met me for his personal reasons like e.g tourism, and then to finally meet me and be happy for us being together and later get married with me and be happy. May I also note here that my husband and I have never been married before.

May I also refer you to UKBA’s internal guidance EUN 2.10 which states :

“The definition of 'spouse' and 'civil partner' in the EEA Regulations does not include someone who has entered into a marriage / civil partnership of convenience.
When a marriage / civil partnership of convenience is suspected, the burden of proof is high and rests with the ECO. However, in these cases the ECO is
entitled to interview the applicant. Factors to consider include:

an adverse immigration history;
doubts about the validity of documentation;
application follows soon after the marriage / civil partnership;
no previous evidence of the relationship.

The ECO should not consider the following cases as marriages / civil partnerships of convenience where:
there is a child of the relationship;
there is evidence to suggest cohabitation.”

From this guidance it is obvious and i hope it could be easily recognised that ECO failed to acknowledge that burden of proof should be high, and deliberately omitted evidence of cohabitation to suit her own liking to determine marriage of convenience. As a matter of fact ECO completely disregarded evidence given as not relevant.

Please also refer to EUN2.4: “It is important not to test overall intentions in assessing applications for an EEA family permit. Also, there is an initial right of residence for 3 months, which means that an EEA national does not have to be exercising a treaty right immediately on arrival in the UK.”


Finally, I again kindly request you to overturn the decision on my application and granting me the permit. In case of your refusal please provide us with the names of persons handling my case. A refusal of this application will interfere with the free movement of my EU spouse and of our family.

Should you have any questions of law, please discuss it carefully with Euro Casework

If you refuse this , I will formally complain to the European Commission and Solvit, and will seek compensation.

Thank you for your timely and professional attention to this application.

Please find attached copy of refusal letter in this email.

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Post by Pablito » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm

After an interview my wife told me that an ECO interviewing my wife was a British woman and a real biatch so to speak, she wouldn't listen to my wife but keep on picking on her that there is no evidence, not enough photos and so on.Basically my wife told me that she wasn't able in any way to reason with that woman.

Hope some of you could advise something on this matter.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:10 pm

Are you both still together in the Philippians?

It would appear that UKBA have some grounds for suspecting that your marriage might not be genuine. Have evidence can you provide to refute this? The stronger the evidence you can provide, the better chance you will have in getting a reconsideration.

Were you given permission to appeal?

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Post by Aine002 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:52 pm

What are you going to do now Pablito? I will also make complain to Solvit about UK embassy in Warsaw. According to this http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/ they don't have right to ask anything else except marriage certificate and passports.
well i wish you good luck. Tomorrow is my day, we are flying with Ryan air to UK without visa just on the base of UE rights.

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Post by Pablito » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:49 am

EUsmile,yes the right to appeal was given and yes we are together here with my wife, We provided them with certifiaction from local Barangay captain that we have lived together since my arrival in the Philippines( she didn't even acknowledge this certification) I understand that maybe if we live in UK this sort of certification wouldn't be recognized, but here in the Philippines it is already official government's document. We provided both our photos from UK including known places in London, Blackpool, Edinburgh... My passport was issued in Edinburgh the place where my wife studied. I mean how could it all not obviously imply that we both were in relationship before. There wasn't for us any need to contact by email or skype since we were in the same city.

Unfortunately we can't provide tenancy agreement since this one is on my wife's sister name.

Yeah i understand that my wife overstayed in UK and this gives suspicion to her true intentions but being an over-stayer and to simply conclude marriage of convenience and put them both as equal on the scale is in my opinion very unjust. Especially that evidence was given. Even she mentioned me visiting Philippines before, I've never been even married before to appear like some kind of a guy who finds wives in the Philippines then divorces one and get another one. It is in my opinion even very offensive to mention that in a refusal letter without actually proving what is the point of that remark.

Aine i cross my fingers for you, I am not yet sure what I want to do about this matter, but I already sent an email to ECM, we will see. I might want to try to apply for schengen visa, but we are not sure yet, we don't want to stay here much longer.

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Post by Pablito » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:20 am

Another email i sent today myself as an EEA national

A letter from EEA national

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to you following a complaint letter from my wife requesting you for reconsideration of ECO’s decision.
As an EEA national and a spouse of .................., I would like to declare here that I confirm my wife’s statements regarding our personal life to be true and I would like to personally address some of the indications made by ECO in her refusal letter, hoping that this will help overturn the decision without a need to appeal and taking this matter further.

In the first place i am frustrated by ECO’s lack of thourough investigation of our case and deciding our marriage to be the one of convenience one the spot(just right after interview was conducted) and actually without any objective investigation of evidence provided to her. For example ECO acknowledged the fact that I may be in the Philippines but there is no evidence of us living together. My wife had attached a certifaction from Barangay Official which clearly states that both of us have lived together since June 23.
This I believe could be easily proven for the simple fact that both of us live very near embassy, and if ECO was genuinly investigating our case we would have a visit here long time ago or at least she would mention in her refusal why a certification from regional goverment official isn’t satisfactory. Also clear evidence of both of us living in Edinburgh wasn’t even mentioned. It is a fact that my passport was issued in the same city where my wife lived and where she was apprehended by UKBA.
We had provided number of photos clearly taken in UK, and some of them show my wife’s family attending our wedding.
I believe there is no evidence suggesting marriage of convenience other than that my wife was illegally in UK, yes indeed she was, but this not automatically prove our marriage to be one of convenience basing on mere prejudices of ECO worker regarding what we should had done in the past, who should visit our wedding and when we are going to visit my country of birth.
My personal statement is that as an EEA national i have the right to travel to any member state together with my non EEA wife, where ECO asked my wife why we will not live in Poland, it is up to me where in which member state I wish to exercise treaty rights, if i choose to return to UK we should not be met with prejudice to national immigration law of United Kingdom, It is also not required from me to secure my stay in the Philippines if I don’t wish to live here permanently. Also I don’t understand why prior to our marriage either my or my wife should feel the need to possess joint accounts, we were in the relationship at that time and we didn’t feel it necessary. Now that we are married already if we are already settled in one of the European Union member country of our choice, we may like to have a joint account. Also if we wish to remain in UK after the period of 3 months we would be rightfully and Lawfully allowed to do so, providing that I will exercise my treaty rights.

I therefore kindly request you on the basis of all evidence given to look into our application with genuine scrutiny , without prejudice and overturn unjustly made decision in our case. Together with my wife we will be pleased to communicate the issue and provide any other possible evidence if necessary, however i truly hope that evidence already provided will suffice to have very reasonable doubt that decison made was in any way fair or reasonable basis to decide our marriage to be one of convenience.

My Kindest Regards

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Post by ukforever » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:18 am

Aine002 wrote:What are you going to do now Pablito? I will also make complain to Solvit about UK embassy in Warsaw. According to this http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/ they don't have right to ask anything else except marriage certificate and passports.
well i wish you good luck. Tomorrow is my day, we are flying with Ryan air to UK without visa just on the base of UE rights.
hi AINE02,good luck and keep us updated on how it went..
and sorry for you pablito for the refusal,its so unfair...!!
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Post by Pablito » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:08 am

ukforever wrote:
Aine002 wrote:What are you going to do now Pablito? I will also make complain to Solvit about UK embassy in Warsaw. According to this http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/ they don't have right to ask anything else except marriage certificate and passports.
well i wish you good luck. Tomorrow is my day, we are flying with Ryan air to UK without visa just on the base of UE rights.
hi AINE02,good luck and keep us updated on how it went..
and sorry for you pablito for the refusal,its so unfair...!!

Ukforever thank you for empathizing with me I really appreciate it. Hopefully soon we will resolve this matter.

Aine I hope you were successful to get to UK, please share about it, we may be trying this way as well.

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