Hi there any advice

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:56 pm

Hi there good morning and merry Christmas

I just want to ask any advice about my current status and my appeal
I received the decision of the Upper Tribunal which is refused sadly so I'm scared and don't know what to do.
I came here as student 2010 which my college closed
I entered in civil partnership with partner a Belgian national last July 2011
Ukba found out I'm working in excess hours in my student visa so they curtail my leave I'm appeal December 2011 and January 2012 I received the decision allowed they may 2012 they curtail my visa again they I appealed again and September 2012 it was refused again then apply for the permission to appeal to upper tribunal refused again then straight to Upper tribunal last October so I received the decision refused again,
What I need to do?
Any advice will helpful
I know new year new life but for me it's not

Post by **John** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:04 pm

So your appeal has not been allowed, but exactly what application were you making?

Also, your Belgian Civil Partner, are they exercising Treaty Rights in the UK? If so, how? Employed? Self-employed? A student? Or how?

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:44 pm

I applied EEA2 Residence Card last year but they send back the whole application because we didn't include his identity card because he didn't include his ID card need to be renewed, and asking of proof of self employed we mention in ukba were building our hotel boat business that's why we don't have any income yet, but we have business account, accountant, since the ukba returned back our application we haven't applied again because of my appeal
Yes he's exercising his treaty rights as self employed building our hotel boat we gonna trade next year spring,we have ni number no contribution yet because no income and we filled our tax return
Thank you John for speedy reply
Nice question you have for me I'm also asking my self what I'm applying for because since I appeal I appeal to stay here and issue me a Residence card

Post by **John** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:11 pm

Yes he's exercising his treaty rights as self employed building our hotel boat we gonna trade next year spring

I think that is debatable. Other opinions very welcome.

As far as UK tax law is concerned I do not think your partner is yet trading. He/she is currently getting ready to trade, but trading has not yet started.

I know this is not the situation, but consider someone who wants to open a shop. So they lease some shop premises and start paying rent, they hire shopfitters and get the shop fitted out, and then they buy stock and maybe even hire staff. And then, great, the shop opens to the public! When does the trading start? When the shop opens to the public.

Post by **Obie** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:39 pm

Well i am incline to agree that technically speaking, your husband is not yet self employed. I will not dispute the fact that the ECJ might one day extend the scope of Self-employed, to people who are actively working to become self ]employed, like in the case of jobseekers. see Van Roosmalen

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:00 pm

Is there any chance for me to further my leave after Upper Tribunal decision to refused me ? Is it advisable to apply to EEA2 Residence card while my appeal is refused
What I need to do? Please help me

Post by **Obie** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:32 pm

You can apply when your partner becomes a qualified person. He could become one by obtaining a CSI and provided you can show sufficient resource.

Was you relationship brought to the attention of the Judge?

Why the judge refuse you permission to appeal.

Since 2011 you entered into a civil partnership, and i assume your Belgian partner would have been something during that person, and hence you were allowed to work extra period, without your student visa been affected, as you had a community law right.

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:56 pm

Here's the notice of decision of application for permission to appeal

Permission to appeal refused

1.The applicant seeks permission to appeal a decision of the First tier tribunal judge mcintosh dismissing his Appeal against a decision of the respondent to curtail his leave and remove him from the United Kingdom
2.The grounds before me do not challenge the legality of the decision to remove, the respondent might want to satisfy herself that the decision to remove was made lawfully before seeking to remove the appellant.
3. Neither do the grounds complain about the decision to curtail the leave
4. Rather they assert that the appellant is entitled to remain in the United Kingdom because he is the civil partner of an EEA national exercising treaty of rights. However Judge Mcintosh was not satisfied that the appellants partner was exercising treaty of rights and the grounds do not criticise that the finding and they do not deal directly with First Tribunal Judge Grant Hutchinson's decision to refuse permission to appeal
5. The grounds before me identify no arguable error of law and I refuse permission to appeal

Hi Obie thank you so much or the advise is that advisable to apply again Residence card ?
No they didn't question my relationship because for me it's genuine

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Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:09 pm

Irrespective of the self-employed position, it would appear that you're EU partner is self-sufficient. The UK will expect you to have sickness insurance for you and your partner.

I would suggest that you reapply on this basis.

Post by **John** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:17 pm

Did you actually get any legal advice as regards those appeal hearings?

The Judge clearly doubts that your partner is exercising Treaty Rights at the moment. And I share those concerns. But it is possible that they can exercise Treaty Rights as a Self Sufficient person, but in order to do that they need sufficient funds, and also have CSI ..... Comprehensive Sickness Insurance.

If those two aspects are in place, and only then, you could submit a form EEA2 application, and whilst not essential, your partner could also submit a form EEA1 application. After all if their application is granted, yours is bound to be granted as well.

Post by **Obie** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:39 pm

Richard what has your partner been doing since 2011 july? When did he arrive in the UK and what has he done since that moment? Where has he been receiving his sustinance from?

Post by **Jambo** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:46 pm

I assume you are the same person in this thread (unless building hotel boats is very common).

Wasn't the main issue the fact that your partner wasn't living in the UK so he can't exercise treaty rights in the UK?

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Hi there my partner arrive here in United Kingdom 2006 since then he became self sufficient but no cSI that time then he decided to start his business after so he engaged himself as self employed, yes my partner is here in United Kingdom all his things regarding his business pay his own money no help from government here,

I scared because I lost my appeal it means I need to leave the country ASAP?
And we can't do anything
I'm working at the moment is this help us his savings and my income to be self sufficient

Post by **Obie** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:06 pm

Can you confirm if you are the other user that Jambo claimed you are. Your hstory and circumstance seems very similar.

You are advised that opening multiple account is not allowed.. You will be best advised to select which account you wish to have deleted.

Once that is sorted, we can deal with the other issues.

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:31 pm

Yes it's same I opened a new account because its new case my other account is closed already that why
I'm so sorry if I cause any trouble I preferred to used and I can delete my other other I'm so sorry
Please help me

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:00 am

Does it mean I lost my appeal, I need to leave the country
Please any advice
or its the end for me here in uk

Post by **Obie** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:41 am

I have taken the step of inactivating nico2185, so you will be unable to use it in future.

Please refrain from opening multiple accounts.

As you were advised, the option is open to you to submit a new application, once your partner has obtained the necessary document to support your application .

Try not to get too worried. It is unlikely UKBA will knock at your door and ask you to leave tomorrow. Even if the take the step of doing so, you will have another opportunity of appealing.

I am sure you legal rep will advice you on this.

Post by **John** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:21 am

...... then he decided to start his business .......

But he has not achieved that yet. He is currently merely getting ready to trade.

So CSI is essential for them to be exercising Treaty Rights ..... and that assumes enough funds to be Self Sufficient.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:26 am

Richard2185 wrote: yes my partner is here in United Kingdom...

...his savings and my income to be self sufficient

If these are true, get CSI for both of you and reapply. Don't delay.

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:20 am

Hi there good morning to all you especially the moderator here thank you for your help

I received a letter from ukba Bristol stating that I should leave the country on 04/03/2013 because they found out that since upper tribunal refused y appeal I haven't appealed or re apply for Residence card .

Help
What I need to do?
What if I dint leave the country on said date?
I'm scared I don't know what to do? Do you think they going to arrest me?

ravii · Post by **ravii** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:11 pm

If your partner is in the uk and working as a self employed then re apply with supporting documents.and I am hope full this time you will attach his/her ID as well.this is the best option other wise if they arrest you then you will be in trouble.so time is short now.re apply RC as soon as possible.

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:06 pm

H ravil thanks for the reply the problem is we're not trading yet our business we have all the documents we need to start the business but for ni we had number but no contribution, we filled tax but no income yet, yes we're living together helping each other to finish the boat, because my friend was the one who received the letter because I'm not living there anymore I just live there when my partner is away ,
The problem we can't apply yet we don't have any proper documents we need to reapply residence card
Do you think there is possibility they going to my friends house?

waki · Post by **waki** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:57 pm

Hi richard.You've been advised by the honourable moderators in december to get a csi and look for enough fund and reapply on the basis of self sufficiency and i believe if u've have taken steps in that direction,you should have gone beyond all these,moderatos and people who support everyone here are not miracle workers and heaven helps those who help themselve.follow up the the earlier advise you were given and u will be fine.All the best!

Richard2185 · Post by **Richard2185** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:54 am

Hi waki I know your right everyone advise me to re apply but the problem is lack of documents we don't have enough funds I don't know if 1000-2000 pounds on our bank account is enough plus health insurance and currently my partners ID card in the process of renewing that's why I'm so sorry even though my I want to do anything but I can't at the moment?

Do you think I need to follow the letter and leave by 04/04/2013?
Do you think they will go to my friends address the one they sent the letter which I'm no longer living there? What will happen if I didn't leave the country on the said date?

waki · Post by **waki** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:06 pm

Its not for me to tell you what to do but its for you to look at the options you have based on numerous advise and opinions of honourable members,especially the moderators and take it from there.I still think you can make a positive move b4 april,hence i suggest you put all your energy into that.I wish u all the very best.

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Hi there any advice

Hi there any advice