Applying for a Schengen Visa

[the hurricane]

Just spoke to the embassy today.
Marriage certificate was the reason for refusal.Now they are asking for the marriage certificate to be legalised by British High Commision in Beijing.I'm not sure if that's possible as the certificate is from Pakistan not from U.K.
I tried to explain it to the lady on the phone from French embassy but she was like if you cannot do it u will be refused visa if you apply again.Then she was like why dont you go to U.K instead.I answered back saying my wife has a job offer in France and i want to join her.After hearing this she said now you will need your wife's carte de sejour aswell.I explained and said EU citizens don't get carte de sejours anymore in france.Then i pointed out the Directive and the minimum requirements for family members of EU citizens and she said she knows her job.After this she cut me off.It was too rude.I have complained Solvit already but that will take light years to solve this.

I dont't know what to do anymore, i was thinking to apply with the German embassy but because the French refused it before,it might create some problem.
Any suggestions?

Well I am not surprised at all, and I could predict that. As I told you there is no way that they could overturn their decision over the phone. French people are arrogant and telling them about the Directive over the phone will not solve the problem. My suggestions are as follows;

- Appeal against the decision, and if possible give them a deadline to reconsider their decision, otherwise you are going to complain to the European Commission. Believe me over the phone they can say whatever they want (for example asking why you don’t go to the UK, I mean who is she to tell where to go?), but not in a formal letter.

- I personally believe that reapplying will not solve the situation, because they will always try to find tons of excuses. Where is your wife at the moment? If she is already in France and has been there more than three months, you will need to show her resident permit.

- Try to legalize your marriage certificate by the British high commission. Legalize a document simply means that the British authority recognizes that the document authentic , I am not sure if you can do it that in China since the document is from Pakistan (can someone do it for you in Pakistan?)

- I don’t see the point to apply Germany because I don’t think the German embassy will contradict their French colleagues plus it is easy for them to contact the French embassy and use the same excuse. “Officially” the German embassy should issue a visa if you apply, but try to put yourself in their shoes someone just got a refusal from France and is now trying in Germany. Don’t you think it sounds suspicious? To me I would think that you are just trying to get a schengen visa but don't have the intention to visit Germany at all

[logical_1]

Just spoke to the embassy today.
Marriage certificate was the reason for refusal.Now they are asking for the marriage certificate to be legalised by British High Commision in Beijing.I'm not sure if that's possible as the certificate is from Pakistan not from U.K.
I tried to explain it to the lady on the phone from French embassy but she was like if you cannot do it u will be refused visa if you apply again.Then she was like why dont you go to U.K instead.I answered back saying my wife has a job offer in France and i want to join her.After hearing this she said now you will need your wife's carte de sejour aswell.I explained and said EU citizens don't get carte de sejours anymore in france.Then i pointed out the Directive and the minimum requirements for family members of EU citizens and she said she knows her job.After this she cut me off.It was too rude.I have complained Solvit already but that will take light years to solve this.

I dont't know what to do anymore, i was thinking to apply with the German embassy but because the French refused it before,it might create some problem.
Any suggestions?

Well I am not surprised at all, and I could predict that. As I told you there is no way that they could overturn their decision over the phone. French people are arrogant and telling them about the Directive over the phone will not solve the problem. My suggestions are as follows;

- Appeal against the decision, and if possible give them a deadline to reconsider their decision, otherwise you are going to complain to the European Commission. Believe me over the phone they can say whatever they want (for example asking why you don’t go to the UK, I mean who is she to tell where to go?), but not in a formal letter.

- I personally believe that reapplying will not solve the situation, because they will always try to find tons of excuses. Where is your wife at the moment? If she is already in France and has been there more than three months, you will need to show her resident permit.

- Try to legalize your marriage certificate by the British high commission. Legalize a document simply means that the British authority recognizes that the document authentic , I am not sure if you can do it that in China since the document is from Pakistan (can someone do it for you in Pakistan?)

- I don’t see the point to apply Germany because I don’t think the German embassy will contradict their French colleagues plus it is easy for them to contact the French embassy and use the same excuse. “Officially” the German embassy should issue a visa if you apply, but try to put yourself in their shoes someone just got a refusal from France and is now trying in Germany. Don’t you think it sounds suspicious? To me I would think that you are just trying to get a schengen visa but don't have the intention to visit Germany at all

Yes i guess you are right.Appeal seems to be a better option.I just need to get the marriage certificates legalised by British High Commision.Once thats done i will probably appeal.
However I'm not sure of the appeal procedure as in how it works out,could anyone shed some light on this.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

What are your nationalities and where did the marriage take place?

Legalisation of certificates can be a complicated business. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_convention

You mention the UK in one of your posts. If one of you is British, you might contact the UK embassy and see if there's a means of having your marriage certificate validated by them.

[the hurricane]

Just spoke to the embassy today.
Marriage certificate was the reason for refusal.Now they are asking for the marriage certificate to be legalised by British High Commision in Beijing.I'm not sure if that's possible as the certificate is from Pakistan not from U.K.
I tried to explain it to the lady on the phone from French embassy but she was like if you cannot do it u will be refused visa if you apply again.Then she was like why dont you go to U.K instead.I answered back saying my wife has a job offer in France and i want to join her.After hearing this she said now you will need your wife's carte de sejour aswell.I explained and said EU citizens don't get carte de sejours anymore in france.Then i pointed out the Directive and the minimum requirements for family members of EU citizens and she said she knows her job.After this she cut me off.It was too rude.I have complained Solvit already but that will take light years to solve this.

I dont't know what to do anymore, i was thinking to apply with the German embassy but because the French refused it before,it might create some problem.
Any suggestions?

Well I am not surprised at all, and I could predict that. As I told you there is no way that they could overturn their decision over the phone. French people are arrogant and telling them about the Directive over the phone will not solve the problem. My suggestions are as follows;

- Appeal against the decision, and if possible give them a deadline to reconsider their decision, otherwise you are going to complain to the European Commission. Believe me over the phone they can say whatever they want (for example asking why you don’t go to the UK, I mean who is she to tell where to go?), but not in a formal letter.

- I personally believe that reapplying will not solve the situation, because they will always try to find tons of excuses. Where is your wife at the moment? If she is already in France and has been there more than three months, you will need to show her resident permit.

- Try to legalize your marriage certificate by the British high commission. Legalize a document simply means that the British authority recognizes that the document authentic , I am not sure if you can do it that in China since the document is from Pakistan (can someone do it for you in Pakistan?)

- I don’t see the point to apply Germany because I don’t think the German embassy will contradict their French colleagues plus it is easy for them to contact the French embassy and use the same excuse. “Officially” the German embassy should issue a visa if you apply, but try to put yourself in their shoes someone just got a refusal from France and is now trying in Germany. Don’t you think it sounds suspicious? To me I would think that you are just trying to get a schengen visa but don't have the intention to visit Germany at all

Yes i guess you are right.Appeal seems to be a better option.I just need to get the marriage certificates legalised by British High Commision.Once thats done i will probably appeal.
However I'm not sure of the appeal procedure as in how it works out,could anyone shed some light on this.

If i am not mistaken they usually give four weeks to appeal so do it a.s.a.p. I dread that you may run out of time if you decide for legalization. Regarding your marriage certificate, you can either legalize it by Consulate /Embassy of origin country (in your case is Pakistan) or accompanied by an apostille (British High commission) as I said before legalization simply means recognizing the authentic of the document (there is nowhere it states that the document must be legalized by country X or whatsoever). For instance check the Swedish http://se.vfsglobal.co.uk/eea_documentsrequired.html (this is just to give an idea and it is a part of Schengen too), I think as long as you have the document translated in English and legalized by either British high commission or country of origin you should be fine. Please check this http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... &start=200 because it is kinda similar problem and there is a template for appeal (you just have to change few things and please keep it as simple as possible). I am sure if you have a high chance to win this case and please keep us posted on the progress.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@the hurricane; this is one area where EU states do not exercise uniformity. An appeal might well succeed. It might also fail because the applicant has failed to submit evidence of marriage. In the French authorities eyes, they may not recognise the evidence submitted as being valid.

[logical_1]

@Eusmileweallsmile: My wife is a British national and I'm Pakistani citizen.Our marriage took place in Pakistan hence the certificate is from Pakistan.Note that this cannot be deposited to GRO in UK as the certificate is from Commonwealth Country.

Also I spoke to the British High Commision in Beijing today,told them about the situation and they said that they wont be able to legalise the certificate as it's from Pakistan not China whereas on the other hand Pakistani embassy in Beijing can legalise the certificate.
The French embassy specifically wants the certificate to be legalised by British.So I'm kinda stuck in a bit of tricky situation.
I have only 60 days to appeal as its stated on the refusal letter.

[the hurricane]

@Eusmileweallsmile: My wife is a British national and I'm Pakistani citizen.Our marriage took place in Pakistan hence the certificate is from Pakistan.Note that this cannot be deposited to GRO in UK as the certificate is from Commonwealth Country.

Also I spoke to the British High Commision in Beijing today,told them about the situation and they said that they wont be able to legalise the certificate as it's from Pakistan not China whereas on the other hand Pakistani embassy in Beijing can legalise the certificate.
The French embassy specifically wants the certificate to be legalised by British.So I'm kinda stuck in a bit of tricky situation.
I have only 60 days to appeal as its stated on the refusal letter.

Well it makes sense what the British High Commission has told because they cannot verify the authentic of the document; however, the British High Commission in Pakistan can legalize your marriage certificate as they have the ability to verify it. I would suggest you to legalize your marriage certificate (English version) by the Pakistani embassy in China and appeal. By the way is your marriage registered in the UK as well? Believe me if you appeal, the French consulate won’t say that they can’t issue a visa because the marriage certificate isn’t legalize by the British High Commission (they may say that over the phone but not in a formal letter).

[logical_1]

@Eusmileweallsmile: My wife is a British national and I'm Pakistani citizen.Our marriage took place in Pakistan hence the certificate is from Pakistan.Note that this cannot be deposited to GRO in UK as the certificate is from Commonwealth Country.

Also I spoke to the British High Commision in Beijing today,told them about the situation and they said that they wont be able to legalise the certificate as it's from Pakistan not China whereas on the other hand Pakistani embassy in Beijing can legalise the certificate.
The French embassy specifically wants the certificate to be legalised by British.So I'm kinda stuck in a bit of tricky situation.
I have only 60 days to appeal as its stated on the refusal letter.

Well it makes sense what the British High Commission has told because they cannot verify the authentic of the document; however, the British High Commission in Pakistan can legalize your marriage certificate as they have the ability to verify it. I would suggest you to legalize your marriage certificate (English version) by the Pakistani embassy in China and appeal. By the way is your marriage registered in the UK as well? Believe me if you appeal, the French consulate won’t say that they can’t issue a visa because the marriage certificate isn’t legalize by the British High Commission (they may say that over the phone but not in a formal letter).

I will definatly get it legalised by Pakistani embassy here,but wouldnt it be a problem if i don't get it legalised by British.But anyway i will try and see what happens.
No the marriage isn't registered in U.K as there is no way to register it because marriages which take place in Pakistan are automatically recongnised in U.K if they are recongised in Pakistan.

[logical_1]

Also regarding appeal, do i just have to write the cover letter,add marriage certificate and other documents and post it to the adress provided or is there something else that i gotta do too.
Any info?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

It is not uncommon for countries to expect to see similar documentation that they expect for their own nationals. (I don't know the particulars of France, but suspect they might have some national registration system).

For you, you need to be able to demonstrate to the French that you are married; that Pakistan recognises your marriage and that the UK recognises your marriage.

You might require to think a little laterally. While I don't know what you submitted, for example presenting a photocopy of a marriage certificate in Urdu was not likely to be accepted by the French in China.

A statement from the Pakistani authorities that the certificate is genuine, backed up by a statement from the UK that they recognise the marriage might suffice.

(Perhaps, a letter from the UK authorities stating their position might help).

[the hurricane]

@Eusmileweallsmile: My wife is a British national and I'm Pakistani citizen.Our marriage took place in Pakistan hence the certificate is from Pakistan.Note that this cannot be deposited to GRO in UK as the certificate is from Commonwealth Country.

Also I spoke to the British High Commision in Beijing today,told them about the situation and they said that they wont be able to legalise the certificate as it's from Pakistan not China whereas on the other hand Pakistani embassy in Beijing can legalise the certificate.
The French embassy specifically wants the certificate to be legalised by British.So I'm kinda stuck in a bit of tricky situation.
I have only 60 days to appeal as its stated on the refusal letter.

Well it makes sense what the British High Commission has told because they cannot verify the authentic of the document; however, the British High Commission in Pakistan can legalize your marriage certificate as they have the ability to verify it. I would suggest you to legalize your marriage certificate (English version) by the Pakistani embassy in China and appeal. By the way is your marriage registered in the UK as well? Believe me if you appeal, the French consulate won’t say that they can’t issue a visa because the marriage certificate isn’t legalize by the British High Commission (they may say that over the phone but not in a formal letter).

I will definatly get it legalised by Pakistani embassy here,but wouldnt it be a problem if i don't get it legalised by British.But anyway i will try and see what happens.
No the marriage isn't registered in U.K as there is no way to register it because marriages which take place in Pakistan are automatically recongnised in U.K if they are recongised in Pakistan.

Another possible way to do:

- Certify a copy of your marriage certificate ( preferably by the British High Commission in China, again this means that they have seen the original document)

- Send that certified document to your wife in France ,and ask her to apply for “Certificate confirming marital status” by the British High commission in France, and on that document it states madam x is married to mister y ( I know few people have applied that and got it). They may ask the reason for applying it, she can just say that the French authorities are requesting it plus having this paper will give more credibility when you appeal.

[logical_1]

Just spoke to British Embassy in Beijing again today.
They said they can't legalise the document as they told me before but what they can do is that If i make an oath in the Embassy, they can provide me with a letter stating that I'm married to my wife who is a British national and this would be on an official letter from the Embassy.
Do you think that this would suffice?

[the hurricane]

Just spoke to British Embassy in Beijing again today.
They said they can't legalise the document as they told me before but what they can do is that If i make an oath in the Embassy, they can provide me with a letter stating that I'm married to my wife who is a British national and this would be on an official letter from the Embassy.
Do you think that this would suffice?

Definitely, if you add it with your marriage certificate it should be more than enough!!!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Just spoke to British Embassy in Beijing again today.
They said they can't legalise the document as they told me before but what they can do is that If i make an oath in the Embassy, they can provide me with a letter stating that I'm married to my wife who is a British national and this would be on an official letter from the Embassy.
Do you think that this would suffice?

It would most certainly help.

[logical_1]

Thanks alot for ur time and help, will keep you updated about the result.

[the hurricane]

Thanks alot for ur time and help, will keep you updated about the result.

Any news?

[logical_1]

Sorry for late reply.I've been very busy recently.
Here's the update:
As my wife is not present in China at the moment so the British Embassy here wont issue the proof of marriage.They need the BC to be in China for them to issue the documents.
My wife is planning to come to China in a months time or so, so i have decided to re-apply for the Schengen visa with complete documentation this time.

[the hurricane]

Sorry for late reply.I've been very busy recently.
Here's the update:
As my wife is not present in China at the moment so the British Embassy here wont issue the proof of marriage.They need the BC to be in China for them to issue the documents.
My wife is planning to come to China in a months time or so, so i have decided to re-apply for the Schengen visa with complete documentation this time.

If I were you I will give a shot at the German embassy though!!!