HELP!: non EU family member - transit visa/EEA family permit

[floriane]

Hi Everyone,

We've had a disastrous day over the weekend due to my lack of knowledge on the visa matters.

My husband is holding a British passport,
I am holding a Chinese passport,
We have a 2.5 year old child who holds a Chinese passport.
We are now living and working in Germany and both my baby and myself holds the "Aufenthaltskarte" which is the residence card here I believe.
I also have a UK residence permit till mid 2013 because I have been studying and working in the UK before moving to Germany.

I am travelling this time alone with my baby and we were refused at the airport to transit in London, because my baby doesn't have a valid German visa/UK transit visa.

Our whole plan to have a break home is now ruined, and the refundable airport tax is far less than expected. BA agrees to retain our tickets for a year but we'll be paying for the changing fees definitely if we manage to get some sort of visa/permit. My whole working schedule is of course disturbed now if we are planning to travel again, not to mention all the disappoints from the relatives who are anxiously waiting for us in Shanghai.

Could someone please advise where I could find the legal statement states that my baby has to have a transit visa even though she is a dependent on me? I am also thinking hypothetically if my husband brings back the baby himself (not a good idea of course), will he get refused from the entry like I do. In general, I do not understand if my 2.5 old can be any harm to step the feet onto Heathrow airport for less than 3 hours.

We have not yet applied a EEA family permit since we just had the young baby and didn't have much time for travelling last year, but can we apply this instead of transit visa and allow us to travel through London again? My husband has to stay in Germany for work, he has less holiday allowance than I have to bring the baby together home. Will the EEA family permit only allow 3 of us travel together to transit in the UK?

Another option in my mind would be changing our "Aufenthaltskarte" here into "Aufenthaltserlaubnis" as some sort of visa in Germany which are accepted by the UK side.

We tried to contact the UK Consulate in Germany but they are no longer responsible for Visa inquiries, and perhaps some of you could share similar situations here for me.

Thank you very much in advance.


KR
Floriane

[John]

The query in my mind is .... why hasn't your child got a British Passport?

[Jambo]

China doesn't allow dual nationality. Obtaining a British passport effectively causes loss of Chinese nationality.

[floriane]

China doesn't allow dual nationality. Obtaining a British passport effectively causes loss of Chinese nationality.

Yes, you are correct. Since our families are in China still, we'll simply travel between Germany and China. The baby will choose the nationality at the age of 18 and we won't have to hold a British passport and apply Chinese visa every year....

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Could you confirm your flight plan and what German documentation you hold?

Eg Frankfurt to Beijing via London; transit London <24 hours.

There is information on who needs a transit visa here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... -landside/

Note that Chinese nationals appear to require additional documentation, but a German issued residence card would appear to have been acceptable.

8) a valid uniform format residence permit issued by an EEA state under Council Regulation (EC) number 1030/2002

[floriane]

Could you confirm your flight plan and what German documentation you hold?

Eg Frankfurt to Beijing via London; transit London <24 hours.

There is information on who needs a transit visa here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... -landside/

Note that Chinese nationals appear to require additional documentation, but a German issued residence card would appear to have been acceptable.

a valid uniform format residence permit issued by an EEA state under Council Regulation (EC) number 1030/2002

We are flying from Dusseldorf to Shanghai, transit via London, transit time is less than 3 hours to and back. We both have a greenish piece of paper attached to the passport called "Aufenthaltskarte" as we are dependents to the British passport holder. Before I was married, I had "Aufenthaltserlaubnis" and I had a residence permit in the UK for 5 years as my previous work permit there.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Does the sticker in the passport look anything like that in the last page of this document?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 007:DE:PDF

(BTW, I'm sure you've looked into this, but have you considered flying via a Shengen state, where you would avoid this problem?)

[floriane]

Does the sticker in the passport look anything like that in the last page of this document?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 007:DE:PDF

(BTW, I'm sure you've looked into this, but have you considered flying via a Shengen state, where you would avoid this problem?)

Yes, we transit in Amsterdam last year. I've phoned KLM later to try to book a different flight and ask for advise on the visa matters, they clearly said any dependent under age 15 are allowed to go with the parent/guardian.

However, since now BA offers me a change of time at the cost of 150 euro per person, I'm having a bit of more time to look deep in this issue. I just don't like the fact I had no warning even after check-in online about this transit visa condition. Also, if I have a resident permit here in Germany, why is this different from a German visa? I maybe able to obtain visa for work here, but my baby is always dependent on my husband/myself, how can she apply a different German visa?!

[floriane]

Does the sticker in the passport look anything like that in the last page of this document?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 007:DE:PDF

(BTW, I'm sure you've looked into this, but have you considered flying via a Shengen state, where you would avoid this problem?)

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aufen ... 5_160.html

We have this...not really the card because I think we need to stay in Germany for 5 years to have the card.

[floriane]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#500901

Oh, I found an old interesting post saying this "Aufenthaltskarte" looks like some document written in Chinese. I had that kind of experience from the airport crew and immigration officers last year.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I should note that it is likely that if the father was was born in the UK and has a British passport, then the child is likely already British also. Hence the chance to "choose" at 18 is between two already existing citizenships.

[John]

China doesn't allow dual nationality. Obtaining a British passport effectively causes loss of Chinese nationality.

The child IS British! That status was acquired at the moment of birth.

So are you saying that China effectively ignores that other nationality, unless a passport is acquired from the other country?

[vinny]

See also Nationality Advice.

Child may apply for a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abodeinstead of a British passport.

An EEA family permit may also be possible if the British Embassy ignores child's British citizenship.

[Jambo]

The child IS British! That status was acquired at the moment of birth.

So are you saying that China effectively ignores that other nationality, unless a passport is acquired from the other country?

Yes.

I didn't claim the child is not British.

However as China doesn't allow dual nationality, the Chinese authorities would consider dual nationals (from birth) as Chinese as long as they don't exercise their rights of the other nationality (for example by obtaining a passport) or actively renounced their Chinese citizenship.

The OP plans to leave all the options open for the child by not obtaining a British passport now as it can be obtained any time in the future.

[John]

I didn't claim the child is not British.

You did not need to claim, it was automatic. If you did not want your child to be British from the moment of birth, you should not have chosen a British father for your child.

[floriane]

Oh dear, my husband was not born in the UK but moved there at a very young age and acquired the British passport later. However it is right that my child do have the option to choose different passports, and even able to choose to be German as she is born in Germany if she decide that when she stay in Germany till 18. Whether she is naturally British or Chinese or German, I really don't know, to me she is just a human being. Nevertheless, how ridiculous is BA deny a 2.5 year old on board as she didn't have a British passport or EEA family permit or German visa.

[Jambo]

I didn't claim the child is not British.

You did not need to claim, it was automatic. If you did not want your child to be British from the moment of birth, you should not have chosen a British father for your child.

John,

I'm not the OP...

(nor am I British or Chinese ).

[floriane]

See also Nationality Advice.

Child may apply for a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abodeinstead of a British passport.

An EEA family permit may also be possible if the British Embassy ignores child's British citizenship.

Thanks, I've been reading this quite useful information.

We are still a special case here that our baby is born in Germany, not in the UK or China. So we decided to retain Chinese nationality for her and since she doesn't hold a British passport, we are not violating the rules. If later, we decide to apply a British passport for her, than it is right her Chinese passport will no longer be valid.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Nevertheless, how ridiculous is BA deny a 2.5 year old on board as she didn't have a British passport or EEA family permit or German visa.

I completely understand your frustration, however, it would appear that BA were following guidance given to them. They are concerned about being fined by the UK.

There were a number of interesting options for you to consider posted by others.

Bear in mind that you would not have this problem if you chose not to transit the UK (doesn't help now of course, but may be something to consider in the future).

[floriane]

Nevertheless, how ridiculous is BA deny a 2.5 year old on board as she didn't have a British passport or EEA family permit or German visa.

I completely understand your frustration, however, it would appear that BA were following guidance given to them. They are concerned about being fined by the UK.

There were a number of interesting options for you to consider posted by others.

Bear in mind that you would not have this problem if you chose not to transit the UK (doesn't help now of course, but may be something to consider in the future).

Yes, they'll be fined for 2k EUR if get caught. I had a bad service as the guy at the airport simply cancelled my ticket. After contacting the customer relations, they promise to reactivate the ticket and move it at a different date.

Would you suggest that I should get a EEA family permit to solve this issue or which kind of German visa is applicable that these airport people will acknowledge it?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Yes, they'll be fined for 2k EUR if get caught. I had a bad service as the guy at the airport simply cancelled my ticket. After contacting the customer relations, they promise to reactivate the ticket and move it at a different date.

Would you suggest that I should get a EEA family permit to solve this issue or which kind of German visa is applicable that these airport people will acknowledge it?

Well, this does sound more promising.

To transit the UK on Chinese passports, both you and your baby will need to be properly documented. This will apply to both you leaving Germany and returning from China.

In addition to the information posted by Vinny, you could apply for a UK transit visa see VAF6

[floriane]

Thanks, but I would rather have the free EEA family permit since my residence permit in the UK is expiring too.

I am also checking what is this as the airport guy mentioned that they'll accept that:
7) a valid uniform format category D visa for entry to a state in the European Economic Area (EEA)

What is that in German and where can I apply for it?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thanks, but I would rather have the free EEA family permit since my residence permit in the UK is expiring too.

To get a free family permit as the spouse and child of a British citizen resident in Germany you would need to demonstrate that your husband is working or is self-employed in Germany and that you will accompany or join him in the UK.

The permit would be valid for six months.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Does the sticker in the passport look anything like that in the last page of this document?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 007:DE:PDF

I am also checking what is this as the airport guy mentioned that they'll accept that:
7) a valid uniform format category D visa for entry to a state in the European Economic Area (EEA)

What is that in German and where can I apply for it?

It's the document I'd posted a link to yesterday. You could ask the German authorities if you can apply for one.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

China doesn't allow dual nationality. Obtaining a British passport effectively causes loss of Chinese nationality.

The child IS British! That status was acquired at the moment of birth.

So are you saying that China effectively ignores that other nationality, unless a passport is acquired from the other country?

and

I didn't claim the child is not British.

You did not need to claim, it was automatic. If you did not want your child to be British from the moment of birth, you should not have chosen a British father for your child. :wink:

Not all children of British fathers (and these days mothers) are British.

The child will be automatically British if the parent was naturalized as a British citizen OR if the parent was born in the UK as a British citizen.

If the parent is British but was born outside the UK, then the child might or might not be British.