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Tier 2 Dependant Visa refused Pls Help

Only for the UK Skilled Worker visas, formerly known as Tier 2 visa route

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Thu May 02, 2013 12:09 am

vinny wrote:Don't know.
Thank you.

DO I have to produce the appeal bundle?

vinny
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Post by vinny » Thu May 02, 2013 12:38 am

No.

If you are not getting legal representation, then do read/prepare everything very carefully.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Thu May 02, 2013 11:54 am

vinny wrote:No.

If you are not getting legal representation, then do read/prepare everything very carefully.
Hi Vinny,

I read your link. I have cleared all my confusion apart from the ground of appeal letter. I was looking at samples online to see if I can draft it myself. But I was thinking of getting a solicitor write it for me. If I do ask them to write the letter, does it mean they will be my representative?

Thanks

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Post by vinny » Thu May 02, 2013 4:33 pm

That's between you and your adviser/solicitor.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Thu May 02, 2013 4:34 pm

vinny wrote:That's between you and your adviser/solicitor.
Can I write the ground of appeal myself?

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Post by vinny » Fri May 03, 2013 2:02 am

Yes, if you know what you are doing. 84(1)(a) would be my guess. 84(1)(e) and (f) may also be applicable.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Fri May 03, 2013 11:43 am

vinny wrote:Yes, if you know what you are doing. 84(1)(a) would be my guess. 84(1)(e) and (f) may also be applicable.
Hi Vinny,

Thank you very much for your response. I think I know what to put in the ground of appeal.

Also, I suffer from depression and currently on medication from the GP. I have disclosed this to my doctor when I was disowned left alone here in the U.k.

Do you think a letter from my GP stating my condition will help the visa application as I am lonely here in the U.K. and that is affecting my mental health.

Thank you

JS

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 10:21 am

vinny wrote:Yes, if you know what you are doing. 84(1)(a) would be my guess. 84(1)(e) and (f) may also be applicable.
Hi Vinny,

Thank you very much for all your help. I am really sorry if I keep on asking questions. Just couple more questions then I am ready to write my ground of appeal. I am gonna go with 84 (1)(a), (e) and (f).

I have couple of questions:

1.) I moved to a one bedroom flat just before the decision was made on my partner's visa. Can I please included this in the additional evidence?

2.) Should I mention that I suffer from depression and that being apart from my partner could make my situation worst?

I hope to hear from you soon as a matter of urgency.

Thank you again

JS

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Post by vinny » Sun May 05, 2013 10:42 am

1) Yes.
2) I don't know.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 1:57 pm

vinny wrote:1) Yes.
2) I don't know.
Thanks vinny for the repply.

Can we send a copy of the ground of appeal letter and evidence to both the ECO in the Philippines and Tribunal to get a response quicker?

JS

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Post by vinny » Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 pm

No.

You should really read everything carefully!
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 2:42 pm

vinny wrote:No.

You should really read everything carefully!
But it says in this link, lodging an application.

■ In entry clearance cases, the appellant can lodge the appeal either with the tribunal or with the entry clearance officer.21 If the latter, the ECO must forward the appeal to the tribunal within ten working days.22 If lodged with the tribunal, it sends the papers to the entry clearance post for comments. There are no time limits laid down in the Procedure Rules, but the tribunal usually requests comments within a specified period.
At the time of writing the appeal is likely to be listed more quickly if the notice of appeal is lodged with the entry clearance officer rather than the tribunal.23 However, if there is a doubt about getting an appeal lodged on time (for example if there are difficulties with local postal services) lodge the appeal with the tribunal. If lodged with the ECO, the ECO will send it to the tribunal to be recorded as lodged and it will then be sent back to the ECO.

http://www.ilpa.org.uk/data/resources/1 ... ppeals.pdf

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 2:43 pm

vinny wrote:No.

You should really read everything carefully!
Sorry my mistake, the rules have changed from 2012. I did not see that

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 3:23 pm

vinny wrote:No.

You should really read everything carefully!
Hi Vinny,

Should I mention
(1) that the ECO failed to state which sub-paragraphys of 319C the refusal was based on.

Also, how can I explain that the ECO taking the decision should have exercised differently a discretion conferred by immigration rules?

What does ithe above mean?

Thanks

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 7:58 pm

From
xxxx

5th May 2013

To
First Tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber)
PO Box 6987
Leicester
United Kingdom
LEI 6ZX

Dear Sir/Madam,

I, xxxx, am the sponsor and representative of xxx, who is my civil partner. My civil partner applied for Entry Clearance to the United Kingdom as a Tier-2 PBS Dependant with reference no. xxxx.

The Entry Clearance Officer refused my civil partner’s visa on the xx April 2013 stating that her and I have only spent 49 days after the civil partnership and that we have not provided evidence that we have been living together in a relationship similar to civil partnership for a period of at least 2 years as required under Paragraph 319C of HC395.

I am very disappointed by the decision of the Entry Clearance Officer as the refusal is not in accordance with UK immigration rules and law. The ECO appeared to have based the refusal on a non-applicable immigration rule 319 C (c) which states:

An applicant who is the unmarried or same-sex partner of a Relevant Points Based System Migrant must also meet the following requirements: (iii) the applicant and the Relevant Points Based System Migrant must have been living together in a relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership for a period of at least 2 years.

The above paragraph is only applicable to unmarried or same-sex partner (de facto relationships) and not applicable to us (de jure relationships) since we have entered into a civil partnership in the U.K. on the 9th February 2013 as mentioned in Paragraph 319 C (b):
The applicant must be the spouse or civil partner of a person who: (i) has valid leave to enter or remain as a Relevant Points Based System Migrant.

It is also odd that the ECO is criticising our lack of time together after the Civil Partnership since my partner was only here on a visit visa and needed to return home to make this application, and given that she had limited rights here as a visitor it makes sense that she would want to do this sooner rather than later.

In addition, the decision had a devastating affect on my life and my family, my civil partner, which has stopped us from enjoying a happy family life. I have been very stressed again since I found out about this news, and this has also affected my health and my ability to concentrate. There are times when I do not want to come home to an empty flat and often cries to my civil partner because I am very lonely without my partner and this why I want her to be with me as soon as possible so I can enjoy my family life like what everyone else does.

As I mentioned in my covering letter, I am very lonely here in the U.K. since my biological family and relatives disowned me for disobeying my parents’ religion and culture (Indian) and for fighting for my sexual orientation and my relationship with June. June is the only immediate family that I have now and I have the right to have a family life in accordance with one of the fundamental rights protected by the Human Rights Act 1998 part 1 article 8:

Right to respect for private and family life:
(1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life


Therefore, the ECO should also exercise discretion in compliance to the Human Rights Act 1998 article 8 (1) when granting my civil partner an entry clearance.

As we have mentioned in our covering letters, my partner and I have known each other for more than 14 years since we went to the same school (elementary and high school) in the Philippines and we have been in a long-distance relationship since 28th of December 2009. I have visited my partner in the Philippines twice on the 14th July 2010 and 29th October 2010, and I stayed 69 days and 140 days, respectively.

I also met xxx in Thailand on the 19th October 2012 and spent a week there together. On the 13th of January 2013, June came to the U.K. on a UK Civil Partnership Visit Visa and spent time with me until 2nd March 2013.

As you can see from the evidences, even though same-sex marriages are not legal in the Philippines, we had a holy union from an American Priest named xxxx on the 14th August 2010 in the Philippines because we wanted to be holy united as life partners. This proves that we are in a genuine relationship and have been acting as husband and wife even before our civil partnership in the U.K.

My immigration records should show that I have been living here in the U.K. from August 2006; I was studying for 4 years, 2 years on Post-Study Work Visa and now on a PBS Tier 2 Visa. Hence, as much as I would have loved to, I could not live with my partner as she was in the Philippines and I was the U.K.

The reason we do not have the same correspondence address is because, as I mentioned, I have been living in the U.K. for the last 6 years and my partner lives with her parents, who did not accept our relationship at the beginning. I also do not possess any property in the Philippines apart from a joint bank account with xxx held at BDO that was opened in March 2011. I send money to this account whenever I can afford to as part of our savings for the future. In addition, I send money to my civil partner every now and then through Western Union.

Throughout the time that we have been away from each other in the last 3 years and 4 months that we have been together, we have communicated through Skype, Whatsapp, Raspberry Messenger, Facebook, Yahoo Messenger, Emails and greeting cards. We have always thought about being together, whether that was in the U.K. or the Philippines. As you can see from the Yahoo Messenger messages, my partner and I have been thinking about having a baby and settling down way back in 2011.

I even have tried leaving the U.K. so that I can be with her. But due to work and career commitments, I cannot leave the U.K. just yet and as a college lecturer, my holidays are very expensive to plan. Also, I am very lonely here in the U.K. as my family and relatives disowned me and June is the only family I have got now. I have been working very hard all this time; first getting a degree and then getting a well paid permanent job that would allow me to support my civil partner and call her to the U.K. so that I can come home to her until our visa allows us to do so.

My civil partner satisfies each sub-paragraph of Paragraph 319C:

(a). There are no general grounds for refusal because we have more than the funds required for the maintenance requirements as per the Points Based System (Dependant) Policy Guidance version 04/2013 Page 9 points 51 and 52-You must have £600 to support yourself- we have more than £600 in our joint account at BDO Philippines and more than £900 in my Santander account, both of which have been maintained for 90 consecutive days prior to the application date; my A-rated sponsor also certified maintenance in my COS and in the letter certifying maintenance for employee and dependants.

(b) We have been in a genuine and subsisting relationship for 3 years and 4 months now and we entered into a civil partnership in the U.K. on xxxx. Original copy of the Civil Partnership certificate was submitted with the application.
(i) I have a valid Tier 2 General Visa valid until xxxx.

(c) is only applicable to unmarried or same-sex partner and NOT APPLICABLE to us due to above.

(d) The Civil Partnership is subsisting - emails and skype conversation from March 2 2013-April 8 2013 (from when xxx came back to the Philippines to when she applied for the visa) were provided with the application and pictures of us together in the U.K.

*A covering letter from me was also submitted with June’s visa application explaining that the only reason why we did not send evidences of being together since December 28 2009 was because these were already submitted when June applied for UK Civil Partnership Visit Visa in December 2012 to come to the U.K. and enter a civil partnership with me. I was under the impression that this, together with the civil partnership certificate, would be considered as evidence of our genuine relationship.

Evidences of our genuine relationship since December 28 2009 are now enclosed with this appeal application. This includes copies of photographs, emails, chat communications, greeting cards, airline tickets, boarding passes and passport entry stamps.

(e) Intention to live together- we provided copy of emails from one another and skype communications showing property searches between June and I. An email to a property agent was also included in the visa application stating that a down payment will be made once I find out about my partner’s visa status because I did not want to be living alone.

However, I was confident that my civil partner would get the visa so I paid a down payment on the 18th April 2013 for a property before I even found out about xxx’s visa application status. I have now moved in to a one double bedroom flat. Evidence of the tenancy agreement, letter from landlord, proof of date of down payment and rent, pictures of our flat, proof of searches for Spam for our flat between June and I is enclosed.

(f) No intention to stay in the U.K. beyond any period of leave granted-As you can see, my partner left the U.K. before her Civil Partnership Visit Visa expires. Also, as you can see from my immigration record, I have never overstayed in the U.K. in the 6 years and half of me being in the U.K. and I will not let my partner do it, as we both understand the implication of this on our future plans.

(h) not applicable
(i) not applicable
(j) not applicable

I request you to please consider my civil partner’s appeal based on the above explanations. Please find enclosed documents including chat communications, skype call logs, pictures of us together, proof of commitments, covering letters, intention to live together and proof of meetings that will ensure you that my civil partner and I have known each other for more than 14 years and we have been in a genuine and subsisting relationship since 28th December 2009 to support my civil partner, xxx, visa application.

I hope that you will find my civil partner candidature worthy of an award of the Entry Clearance to the United Kingdom as a PBS Tier 2 General Dependant. If you have any questions or clarifications, please feel free to contact me at xxxx or xxxx.

Yours faithfully,


xxxx
Last edited by JS28 on Sun May 05, 2013 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 8:00 pm

vinny wrote:No.

You should really read everything carefully!
Hi Vinny,

Sorry to keep bothering you, but once I know my ground of appeal letter is correct, I will stop annoying you i promise :( Sorry.

Will you be able to check the draft I have uploaded above? Also, my question about exercising discretion, I used The Human Rights Act 1998 article 8 (1) which is about right to have a family life. Is this alright?

Thank you and hope to hear from you soon as I have to send this asap.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Sun May 05, 2013 11:23 pm

Hi Vinny,

If you have time, can you please tell me what you think of the letter? Also, in the online application it only allow me to input 4000 characters. Can I send a covering letter with the evidences?

Thanks

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Post by vinny » Mon May 06, 2013 1:01 am

A cover letter is an excellent idea. The letter looks good. You seem to have covered every applicable sub-paragraph of 319C. This is probably a good approach since the refusal had unhelpfully failed to mention which sub-paragraphs the refusal was based on.

If you want, perhaps you can consider contacting my knowledgeable friend for more advice, as he is exceptionally good at writing letters.

Human rights will be important if the refusal was in accordance with the Immigration rules.

There's probably no harm in sending a copy of the cover letter to the ECO/ECM. As you said, this gives them more time and opportunity to overturn the refusal prior to the appeal.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Post by Amber » Mon May 06, 2013 9:04 am

The lack of education in the ukba regarding same sex relationships is still shockingly poor. Homophobia/discrimination still exists at a significant level within LGBT families and some families will try to prevent a relationship regardless of whether a civil partnership has taken place. It is much worse when a religious element exists, and a forced heterosexual marriage may occur. Perhaps you should have included a letter in the first instance, although, I'm not sure it that would have been enough.
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JS28
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Post by JS28 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:35 am

vinny wrote:A cover letter is an excellent idea. The letter looks good. You seem to have covered every applicable sub-paragraph of 319C. This is probably a good approach since the refusal had unhelpfully failed to mention which sub-paragraphs the refusal was based on.

If you want, perhaps you can consider contacting my knowledgeable friend for more advice, as he is exceptionally good at writing letters.

Human rights will be important if the refusal was in accordance with the Immigration rules.

There's probably no harm in sending a copy of the cover letter to the ECO/ECM. As you said, this gives them more time and opportunity to overturn the refusal prior to the appeal.
Hi Vinny,

Thank you for the reply. Shall I take the Human Rights out then? What shall I put in place of discretion coz you mentioned that 84 1 (f) could be used which is exercising discretion.

Also, since it only allows me to write 4000 characters online, I cut it down so I included just the maint points and will send the covering letter with the evidence. Is this going to be okay?

Thanks

JS

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 am

D4109125 wrote:The lack of education in the ukba regarding same gender relationships is still shockingly poor. Homophobia/discrimination still exists at a significant level within LGBT families and some families will try to prevent a relationship regardless of whether a civil partnership has taken place. It is much worse when a religious element exists, and a forced heterosexual marriage may occur. Perhaps you should have included a letter in the first instance, although, I'm not sure it that would have been enough.
It is shocking and they do discriminate. I did submit a covering letter when my partner applied for the Civil partnership visit visa and she did get it without any problem.

Now I am going to include it in the appeal application. I cant use discrimination though can I?

JS28
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This is what I am gonna put in the ground of appeal online

Post by JS28 » Mon May 06, 2013 11:21 am

My civil partner, xxx, applied for Entry Clearance to the United Kingdom as a Tier-2 PBS Dependant. The Entry Clearance Officer refused her visa stating that myself and xxxx have only spent 49 days after the civil partnership as well as for not providing evidence that we have been living together in a relationship akin to civil partnership for a period of at least 2 years as required under Paragraph 319C of HC395.

I am very disappointed by the decision of the Entry Clearance Officer as the refusal is not in accordance with UK immigration rules and law. The ECO appeared to have based the refusal on a non-applicable immigration rule 319 C (c):

An applicant who is the unmarried or same-sex partner of a Relevant Points Based System Migrant must also meet the following requirements: (iii) the applicant and the Relevant Points Based System Migrant must have been living together in a relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership for a period of at least 2 years.

The above paragraph is only applicable to unmarried or same-sex partner and not applicable to us since we have entered into a civil partnership on the xxxx. As mentioned in Paragraph 319 C (b): The applicant must be the spouse or civil partner of a person who (i) has valid leave to enter or remain as a Relevant Points Based System Migrant.

It is also unusual that the ECO is criticising our lack of time together after the Civil Partnership since my partner was only here on a visit visa and needed to return home to lodge this application, and given that she had limited rights here in the U.K. we both wanted to apply for this visa as soon as possible.

In addition, the decision had a devastating affect on our lives as it has prevented us from enjoying a happy civil partner life together. I have experienced high stress levels as a result of this situation that has impacted my health and ability to concentrate. I have recently relocated to a place where my partner and I were going to begin our family life together. However, this news has postponed this from happening, which has caused distressed on my civil partner and myself.

As mentioned in my covering letter, June is the only immediate family that I have after my parents disowned me for disobeying their religion and culture (Indian) and for fighting for my relationship with xxx. I have the right to have a family life with my civil partner in accordance with one of the fundamental rights protected by the Human Rights Act 1998 part 1 article 8 (1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life.

My civil partner satisfies each sub-paragraph of Paragraph 319C:
(a). There are no general grounds for refusal; required maintenance have been maintained for 90 consecutive days.
(b) June and I have known each other for 14 years and we have been in a genuine and subsisting relationship for 3 years and 4 months now. We entered into a civil partnership in the U.K. on xxxx. Original copy of the Civil Partnership certificate was submitted with the application. (i) I have a valid Tier 2 General Visa valid until xxx 2016.
(c) is only applicable to unmarried or same-sex partner and NOT APPLICABLE to us due to the above.
(d) Email, skype conversation and pictures after our civil partnership were provided with the application as evidence of subsisting civil partnership. As mentioned in the letter submitted with the application, evidences from December 2009 were not submitted as these were already submitted for xxx's UK Civil Partnership Visit Visa application in December 2012. These are now provided with the appeal application.
(e) We provided emails and skype showing property search between June and I, which demonstrates our intention to live together. I have moved into a one double bedroom flat for us before the refusal date.
(f) We both have no intention to stay in the U.K. beyond any period of leave granted.
(h) (i) and (j) are not applicable

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Mon May 06, 2013 7:20 pm

vinny wrote:A cover letter is an excellent idea. The letter looks good. You seem to have covered every applicable sub-paragraph of 319C. This is probably a good approach since the refusal had unhelpfully failed to mention which sub-paragraphs the refusal was based on.

If you want, perhaps you can consider contacting my knowledgeable friend for more advice, as he is exceptionally good at writing letters.

Human rights will be important if the refusal was in accordance with the Immigration rules.

There's probably no harm in sending a copy of the cover letter to the ECO/ECM. As you said, this gives them more time and opportunity to overturn the refusal prior to the appeal.
Hi Vinny,

Can you please tell me what you think of the appeal letter above? I cut it down to 4000 characters and removed the discretion but kept the human rights.

I hope to hear from you . Also, I did email davis khan but I doubt he would give an advice without fees.

Thanks

JS

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Post by vinny » Tue May 07, 2013 3:25 am

JS28 wrote:Also, how can I explain that the ECO taking the decision should have exercised differently a discretion conferred by immigration rules?
I was thinking that they could have exercised discretion by requesting any extra documents that may have been lacking, instead of simply refusing. An incorrect refusal wastes everyone's time.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JS28
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Post by JS28 » Tue May 07, 2013 12:41 pm

vinny wrote:
JS28 wrote:Also, how can I explain that the ECO taking the decision should have exercised differently a discretion conferred by immigration rules?
I was thinking that they could have exercised discretion by requesting any extra documents that may have been lacking, instead of simply refusing. An incorrect refusal wastes everyone's time.
Hi Vinny,

Can I quote example of cases and policies in my ground of appeal? Im looking to send it this week. Also, would u suggest online or post application? Coz i have more than 4000 characters.

I hope to hear from you soon

JS28

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