Obstacles to family permit appointment in Madrid

[nick3000]

(Japanese wife, me UK; have been exercising treaty rights for years in Spain)

Hi everyone. I'm panicking a little!: I have just filled in the big form online to apply for a family permit as we leave in July for UK

In the next 6 months there is only ONE appointment available and it is the SAME DAY as our trip in July. This can't be a coincidence - (I filled in this date as my date of travel on the form). Once you get to this stage you can't even go back and look at your application form. The only option I get is to click on the appointment date which is same day as our trip. We have everything arranged for moving back to UK after almost a decade working here. Flights, Kids schools, house, everything.

Are they trying to close down surinder singh route via bureaucracy? Can anyone help soon please. My wife is a little frantic... Thanks so much in advance...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Japanese citizens do not normally require visas to enter the UK.

If you have evidence that you are married and that you have been working in spain, you might consider not bothering with an EEA FP.

Does your wife need proof that she can work immediately on arrival in the UK?

[Jambo]

As your wife is non visa national, you can skip the EEA FP. Just make sure you have enough evidence to prove your employment in Spain and your (both) residence in Spain. Should be simple if you have been living there for long.

If you do decide to skip the EEA FP application, I suggest you read Q1 in EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - EEA Family Permit. Also follow the links for the recommend reading at the topic.

Also see - MelC - Surninder Singh @ Calais although this post is about Calais, it should be similar if you just fly in.

[nick3000]

Many thanks for replying. My wife will look after our kids and won't work for the forseeable future as I'll be self-employed. I know she doesn't need a full visa, but I understood that she'll need a family permit before going to UK.
Is that right?

Also, an update: I tried again and there are appointments available now (weird but good), although I'm unsure if we need it now? I think we should just go ahead...

New question: how can I prove that we have been living together for over 5 years here in Spain. I have kept slips that the bank sends to us every month to document the rent coming out. They have both our names on them (joint account). Would that do it.
I have looked for ages for the answer to this but can't find the info - lots about normal Visas but not for family permits...
Thanks so much!

[Jambo]

but I understood that she'll need a family permit before going to UK.
Is that right?

Not really. The HO would like you to think so but it is not mandatory.

how can I prove that we have been living together for over 5 years here in Spain. I have kept slips that the bank sends to us every month to document the rent coming out. They have both our names on them (joint account). Would that do it.

Bank statements are fine.

Also does she has a Spanish Residence Card? Is her name on the tenancy agreement? Does she get any post under her name? You don't need to have both names on the letters.

[nick3000]

Thanks a million for the links - really helpful!

My wife has a Spanish residence card. On the back it says:

"Relative of permanent European Union Citizen
Observations: resident
And then my name and Spanish identity number (I suppose saying her residency links to me)
Its valid until may 2022

I have some monthly bank account statements for an account we never use (5€; no movements for years;only her name)

She has no other letters coming in in her name as I deal with all bills and finances. Just the docket for rent from the bank that I mentioned (with both names on it).

Her name isn't on the tenancy agreement, just mine.

Is that enough?

[Jambo]

I would think this is enough.

So she has a Permanent Residence status in Spain. This will not be lost if she visits Spain at least once in 2 years.

Didn't she had to prove her residence in Spain to obtain this card? What documents did she use for that application? You can reuse them.

[nick3000]

(only relevant thing we needed was marriage certificate I think, so we had that already which was a help (I assume it doesn't matter that the official copy was issued a year or so ago(?)).

other documents I could include. Would you recommend doing so?
1) a photocopy of the front of her old residence card that expired in dec 2011 (original was taken off her when the new 10 year one was issued in May 2012)
2) copy of airticket to show we're travelling to Uk together
3) rent contract - but only in my name
4) those bank statements I mentioned are just an internet savings bank. There were some movements in last 12 months but doesn't really prove she was actually living here.

The one I'm most concerned about is proving we've lived together for all these years - as everything else is in my name. Seemed to make sense as it was me dealing with all bills etc. but in hindsight probably a mistake.
thanks again and sorry for my late reply!

[Jambo]

You have children. She has obtained a PR card which requires 5 years of residence in Spain. She has some post under her name. There is no need to prove she lived in Spain during all those years. Just that she lived in Spain while you were working. The regulations don't stipulate the duration.

I think the HO has more important things to concentrate on than claiming she didn't live in Spain.

She will be fine. Say goodbye to the Spanish sun. You will miss it.

[nick3000]

I'm going to see if the HO will let me take the sun with me. I've been pretty dependent on it for the last few years and dependence has something to do with admittance as far as I know!

One final question to slip in before I wrap it up (promise!).

I didn't even know that her 10 yr card = permanent residence. You mentioned she could keep this going if we come back every 2 years. How long would we have to come back for each time?

Thanks a million from us both... you've been so helpful and deserve a medal ...and a beer!... and if you don't have time to answer the question above, don't worry. You've given me the jargon to be able to research it myself when the dust settles with all the other stuff we're busy with now.

[Jambo]

I didn't even know that her 10 yr card = permanent residence. You mentioned she could keep this going if we come back every 2 years. How long would we have to come back for each time?

I'm not sure how the Spanish transposed the Directive but Article 20 of the directive states that this status is only lost if you are absent from the member state for more than 2 consecutive years so technically visiting for 1 day every 2 years would be enough to keep the status.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Just to be 100% clear: You need to show evidence that you have worked for a few (roughly 3) months in Spain and that your wife was there with you.

So you could, for example, submit a few months a pay slips, or invoices, and your wife's residence card. As well as your marriage certificate (to prove you are related).

There is no need to provide any evidence of how much assets either of you have, nor of what either of you will be doing in the UK. In fact, neither of you are required to do anything specific once you get to the UK.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I didn't even know that her 10 yr card = permanent residence. You mentioned she could keep this going if we come back every 2 years. How long would we have to come back for each time?

I'm not sure how the Spanish transposed the Directive but Article 20 of the directive states that this status is only lost if you are absent from the member state for more than 2 consecutive years so technically visiting for 1 day every 2 years would be enough to keep the status.

Interestingly, while article 16, states pretty much what you quote, article 20 says interruption in residence. The Spanish transposition appears to be more or less faithful to the wording in the directive.

[ukforever]

but I understood that she'll need a family permit before going to UK.
Is that right?

the family permit is not compulsory,as damien green is stating in this document below:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/278 ... reeEEA.pdf

[nick3000]

Thanks all...

We're so close to getting FP now, I think we may as well get it and forget about it.

But another late question though: flights to Dublin and then travelling up to Northern Ireland works bests for us (I mean cheaper and more convenient, not in terms of red tape)

Would that change anything? I'm guessing the FP has nothing to do with Dublin immigration, but if we have it and have all of our other stuff as well I imagine no problem, right? Hope this isn't a daft question but not sure if it matters that the country we're arriving in isn't the same country as we're settling in...
(no political point intended in the last sentence!)

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

An EEA family permit would cut little ice in Ireland (it's just an entry visa).

However, a Spanish residence card is recognised, though not so important for a Japanese.

[nick3000]

I just thought I'd follow up. We got our family permit through today. Many thanks to everyone for their advice!