Travel for Family of EU citizen, but with expired visa

[tebee]

My Chinese wife is currently working 2 months at a time in Bangkok and coming back to France to be with me for a month in between. She was due back in just over a week but this has now been put back for at least two weeks due to another doctor leaving.

Now this would not normally be too much of a problem, but her Carte du Sejour runs out on the 4th of July, as the only issued it for one year. We were intending to use this break to re-apply. To complicate things further, she needs to be back in Bangkok on 10th July for an important meeting, her hospital has just been sold and the new owners are coming to meet the staff.

If she does come I doubt will have the new card before she leaves, so she will be here with an expired visa. Now I know as she is Family of an EA national as I am exercising treaty rights here there is nothing illegal with this, but will she have problems trying to leave if the card has expired at that point ?

I am wondering if she should apply for a short term visa as well before she leaves, but can she do this as she already has the card ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Are you asking if she will have problems leaving France, or leaving Thailand?

[tebee]

Leaving France to go back to Thailand - she will have a valid carte du sejour when she returns to France - Unless her schedule changes again !

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Well, going to another EU member state is easy, but that does not directly apply.

Article 4 - Right of exit
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, all Union citizens with a valid identity card or passport and their family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who hold a valid passport shall have the right to leave the territory of a Member State to travel to another Member State.

In general though I think it should be no problem

[ukforever]

My Chinese wife is currently working 2 months at a time in Bangkok and coming back to France to be with me for a month in between. She was due back in just over a week but this has now been put back for at least two weeks due to another doctor leaving.

Now this would not normally be too much of a problem, but her Carte du Sejour runs out on the 4th of July, as the only issued it for one year. We were intending to use this break to re-apply. To complicate things further, she needs to be back in Bangkok on 10th July for an important meeting, her hospital has just been sold and the new owners are coming to meet the staff.

If she does come I doubt will have the new card before she leaves, so she will be here with an expired visa. Now I know as she is Family of an EA national as I am exercising treaty rights here there is nothing illegal with this, but will she have problems trying to leave if the card has expired at that point ?

I am wondering if she should apply for a short term visa as well before she leaves, but can she do this as she already has the card ?

bear in mind that u were supposed to re-apply for her carte de sejour 2 months before it expires..!!!at least this is what is required from eu citizens and their non eu family members,u can check it on their website:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 9315.xhtml

u have to pay a tax of 25 euros because u did not re-apply on time..

Coût
Les cartes de séjour UE- membre de famille et membre de la famille d'un citoyen de l'Union sont délivrées et renouvelées gratuitement.

Toutefois, en cas de non présentation de la carte de séjour arrivant à expiration lors d'une demande de renouvellement,une taxe de 25€ doit être payée. Elle doit être réglée par timbres fiscaux ordinaires.

La taxe est due quelle que soit la nationalité du membre de famille, européenne ou non.

[tebee]

Yes, but she is going back outside the EU - I am just a little worried that some overzealous will realize her visa has expired and stop her flying - do they do that if you overstay? it would seem just to make the overstay worse.

I don't know how long it takes to get a carte du sejour renewed, but I suspect we will only have 2-3 weeks to do it - does anybody know if this is likely to be long enough?

As she could get a free 6 month visa I'm wondering if this is the best thing to do, but I have no idea if this is possible when you already hold a different visa.

Why is life never simple ?

[tebee]

Ah - we went there before she went back last time, but were told she could not re-apply UNTIL 2 months before the expiry of the current visa.

We were also told we had to pay 180 Euros if we let the previous visa expire!

[ukforever]

Ah - we went there before she went back last time, but were told she could not re-apply UNTIL 2 months before the expiry of the current visa.

We were also told we had to pay 180 Euros if we let the previous visa expire!

true,u have to pay the 180 euro for the expired visa,but i think that if she is leaving with ht e visa expired/residence card it could be a problem if she was a normal person,i think that it could be still ok,knowing that she is a spouse of an eea citizen so under eu law she is not regarded as an overstayer and she would be always fine,but for the renewal my guess is your wife might just stay put until she get it sorted,u never know ,it may take longer for her to get another visa to be back ,if she gets a new visa of 3 or 6 month,what u need to know that she can't apply for renewal with the new visa,u see,how it works is,if u get a short stay visa and then to apply for the carte de sejour,u need to do so before the visa expires which means u need to apply for the carte within 2 month,if its the 6 month visa,same thing,u have to apply 2 moth before the visa expires and its more likely that it will be a fresh application for a residence card rather than a renewal..!!its like the clock starts again when u apply for a residence card with a new visa..because if u want to renew the carte de sejour that u had,u needed to reapply before its expiry by 2 months and if u did after it did expire u needed to pay the 180 euro,so its a catch 22..
i don't know if u are getting the point...!!at least this is what i understood by the website's texts...i'm not sure if u can reapply for the carte de sejour with a new visa,u might need to ask them..

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

They definitely will check her visa status on leaving Schengen. But she does have a special status as family member of an EU citizen.

Her Residence Card was support to be valid for 5 years. Was that so?

And there is no legal way there could be a 25 euro fine for not reapplying 2 months before expiry. That should be challenged!

If she is given any problem, ensure that they specify in writing what the problem is and stamp it.

[tebee]

No she was only given a one year card to start with, if she had been given the right length to start with we would not have this problem now.

I am a little confused by UKforever's assertion that we should have applied before and will have a fine for not doing so. My reading of it ( from http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F15922.xhtml ) is that you can only apply within the two months preceding the expiry of the card -"Vous devez déposer votre demande dans les 2 mois qui précédent l'expiration de votre carte de séjour."

There does seem, to be a fine if you don't present the old card or apply after the expiration of the card "Toutefois, en cas de non présentation de la carte de séjour arrivant à expiration lors d'une demande de renouvellement, une taxe de 25 € doit être payée" From http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... tml#N100DA

According to that page the fine is 25 Euros, but when we went there, there was a prominent sign behind the desk saying it was 180 !

[ukforever]

No she was only given a one year card to start with, if she had been given the right length to start with we would not have this problem now.

I am a little confused by UKforever's assertion that we should have applied before and will have a fine for not doing so. My reading of it ( from http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F15922.xhtml ) is that you can only apply within the two months preceding the expiry of the card -"Vous devez déposer votre demande dans les 2 mois qui précédent l'expiration de votre carte de séjour."

There does seem, to be a fine if you don't present the old card or apply after the expiration of the card "Toutefois, en cas de non présentation de la carte de séjour arrivant à expiration lors d'une demande de renouvellement, une taxe de 25 € doit être payée" From http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... tml#N100DA

According to that page the fine is 25 Euros, but when we went there, there was a prominent sign behind the desk saying it was 180 !

yes tebee,as u explained your case your wife's RC will expire the 4th of july,right..which means u were supposed to re-apply the 4th of may..its just the way the french operate,i'm just trying to interpret what is stated in the same website u provided.
and just so u know the french don't implement the directive 100%,i'm sure of something,when there is no visa or expired of a spouse of a french and he/she wants to lodge an application for RC they have to pay for 340 euro fine for regularization of the visa,so i guess the 180 euro its for the expired visa/carte de sejour,not sure,i saw it somewhere,if i find the link i'll post it here.
as for the residence card,they issue only a temporary one of 1 year,i know..!! right..!!they don't implement the directive and what it say in their website is ,a residence card to be issued is from 1 year to 5 years or they will issue the RC with the same length of the eu citizen's RC if he has one or the length he suggest,like if he tells them he is staying 3 years ,they will issue it accordingly to his statement,but as far as i'm following this forum,i did not read about anyone who got it this way..it's what their website :

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/part ... 2653.xhtml

the translation:


Stay of non-European family during the first 5 years
As a mandatory stay

The adult family members (or 16 years if they want to work) outside Europe must have a residence permit.

They must request within 3 months of their entry into France.

Within a maximum period of six months, a residence permit family member of a citizen of the Union shall be issued, subject to no threat to public order.

This card is the same term as the title of European citizens or, if he did not ask for that which he is entitled, within 5 years.

Renewal of

It is mandatory and must be requested within 2 months before it expires.

anyway,if i find anything new i'll post it here.