Suspicious ILR Story ..... Comments Welcome

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:43 pm

I met a lady I have known from the past recently. We had a chat about a lot the old days and it happens that I asked her what her status was (albeit PR or BC). She informed me she had ILR. So, I asked how long she has been on ILR and the answer was about 3 years. I was intrigued to ask another question â€“ Why havenâ€™t you naturalised yet? She said she did not know she qualifies for Naturalisation. I said she does so long as she satisfies the residency condition for that purpose.

Going on and on, I decided to ask, what was the basis of the ILR. Was it WP, Ancestral Route, Long Residency, Spousal etc? She answered no to all these categories. So then I said could you tell me how you came by this then?

She said a couple of years ago; someone introduced her to a Lawyer who charged a couple of thousand pounds for this service (about 4K) if I remember right. This Lawyer obtained a new Birth Certificate for her in her own name from her country of origin but with a false DOB to reduced her age, but all other details remained the same. With this new Birth Certificate, He obtained a new ppt her countryâ€™s HC in London.

This is the nice part. The lawyer organised payslips for her and backdated these to show that she has worked for employer XYZ for these many years although less than purported. He went on to add some additional documentation to the stuff and applied for ILR on her behalf at the HO.

She said the HO wrote to her a couple of weeks later through this solicitor to confirm the receipt of her application and that it was in process. A couple of months later, she received her ppt from the lawyer with ILR stamped.

Here is the worrying part:

I said, could you find both letters from the HO (confirmation of application & Confirmation of ILR) so that we can determine under which circumstance and category at which the PR status was granted so that it can shed some light. I am still waiting to see a copy.

I told her I was not sure and havenâ€™t heard of how a person would be granted ILR if she did not qualify for any of the categories mentioned above (She came into the country originally with a WHM visa). I said it is possible she has been a victim of fraud and all these years her stay in this country has been illegal. Surprisingly, she made a trip to Germany last year and came through Immigration Control without any problems. Is this possible if the visa is fraudulent and is not possible it would have come to the attention of the IO or they do not check?

I am thinking either the lawyer has someone inside the HO to grant an untraceable ILR or he forged the HO letters and stamps. I am awaiting the letters and I will share the contents but in the meantime if you have any comments please pass it on since she is very distraught now and I have informed her she committed an offence in the first place by obtaining a BC and Ppt under false pretence and circumstance. I told her to call the HO to determine the basis of her ILR or use the SAB.

Amazing country we live in init?

pantaiema · Post by **pantaiema** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:13 pm

My personal opinion. I will not see someone who pay 4K to get fake ILR as a victim.

It is highly unlikely Someone who have been living in the UK for quite a few years did not know that the would not qualify for ILR if you had not been on the work permit for at least 5 years. Also they know about OISIC lawyers and the correct fee should not be that high (a quarter of that, ???)

So someone who are willing to pay 4K and know they do not qualify for that already know what they were doing. Question of honesty here ...

Pantaiema

vin123 · Post by **vin123** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:37 pm

Amazing country we live in init?

So whats the moral of the story ?

I was intrigued to ask another question â€“ Why havenâ€™t you naturalised yet? She said she did not know she qualifies for Naturalisation.

Do you have a vested interest in the lady or her immigration status

Going on and on, I decided to ask, what was the basis of the ILR. Was it WP, Ancestral Route, Long Residency, Spousal etc? She answered no to all these categories. So then I said could you tell me how you came by this then?

Good asking approach !

This is the nice part. The lawyer organised payslips for her and backdated these to show that she has worked for employer XYZ for these many years although less than purported. He went on to add some additional documentation to the stuff and applied for ILR on her behalf at the HO.

Did you know, it only takes a few minutes to verify the genuinity of a payslip by HO ?
If you think its that easy, why don't you collect evidence and get the address of the solictor and report the matter to Crimestoppers (something fishy eh ?) ....or if you know them, why did you not take pains and advice the solicitor or lawyer who arranged that he has done a 'wrong' thing

Please do not stop...its interesting to read too, and keep posting by 'spicing' it up a bit more, while the Administrator is sleeping ....

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:43 pm

vin123 wrote:So whats the moral of the story ?

Don't discuss your immigration status with strangers

vin123 · Post by **vin123** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:59 pm

Marco 72 wrote:
vin123 wrote:So whats the moral of the story ?
Don't discuss your immigration status with strangers

Please don't discourage writing and narration skills...we have not yet reached the first half yet

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:12 pm

Well,
I tried to ask her the details of the lawyer, she told me the last she heard he had moved to Reading somewhere and would look up the name and telephone numbers for him.

Then I will take action and report it to BIA since I cannot report an unknown entity to the authorities. I am awaiting a response. This person is a friend that is why I went to length to interogate her and to inform her of the seriousness of the situation. I know what is wrong and I have pointed that out to her and the most important thing is to get the facts right then take the next step.

stedman · Post by **stedman** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:24 pm

So you're essentially reporting your "friend" to the HO? What a great friend you are. Why is her immigration business of such importance to you?

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:34 pm

stedman wrote:So you're essentially reporting your "friend" to the HO? What a great friend you are. Why is her immigration business of such importance to you?

I am not reporting my friend. All I am trying to do is to find out if she obtained the ILR through fraudulent means and point her in the direction of rectifying this by going through the proper route. The reporting is up to her and I will rather pass the details of the solicitor to BIA if it turns out to be a fraud. As att now, I cannot say until or the facts have been gathered.

vin123 · Post by **vin123** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:17 pm

In essence, yes, what you are doing is a free public immigration crime reporting service with respect to "ILR morality".
Right now you are checking on people with ILR standing that you know(sometimes gender matters too for personal reasons ?) who has used various service providers that facilitates ILR processes.
In future, you could expand your operations east/north/west/south.

The immigration minister may be interested too...Perhaps you could work out and present a business plan out of this ?

jes2jes wrote:
stedman wrote:So you're essentially reporting your "friend" to the HO? What a great friend you are. Why is her immigration business of such importance to you?
I am not reporting my friend. All I am trying to do is to find out if she obtained the ILR through fraudulent means and point her in the direction of rectifying this by going through the proper route. The reporting is up to her and I will rather pass the details of the solicitor to BIA if it turns out to be a fraud. As att now, I cannot say until or the facts have been gathered.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:46 pm

How could your friend be a "victim" when it sounds as if she was complicit in the fraud herself. Surely when she received the passport back with a different DOB she would have realised something dodgy was going on? Why didn't she report the lawyer at that stage?

Didn't she question on what basis she got the ILR? I can't believe someone could be that ignorant.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:34 pm

Dawie wrote:How could your friend be a "victim" when it sounds as if she was complicit in the fraud herself. Surely when she received the passport back with a different DOB she would have realised something dodgy was going on? Why didn't she report the lawyer at that stage?

Didn't she question on what basis she got the ILR? I can't believe someone could be that ignorant.

Dawie:

You would be surprised how ignorant a lot of people are when it comes to the Immigration Rules. I accept that she should have queried the basis of her ILR which she didn't (Remember I was not around and did not know the circumstance which, led her to take this action therefore I cannot judge her no matter the result).

People take desperate measures to rectify situations they believe are beyond their control. Most of the time, if not all, it is based on personal choice and decisions.

I am not in any way condoning her actions. And Vin123, I do not go about checking people's status. It just happened that we were having a conversation and I was surprised she has been on ILR this long and not naturalised yet, which led me to be a bit 'nosy' (unduly curious about the affairs of others; prying; meddlesome - according to dictionary.com).

Just to let you know that, I am a happily married bloke with a wonderful wife. I was just playing the good samaritan.

Thanks for your comment and I will help people to stay within the law than break it.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:01 pm

I was just playing the good samaritan

Wouldn't the good Samaritan inform the lady of her (inadvertent?) transgression ... and leave it to her to trace the lawyer and/or take further action?

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:24 pm

OL7MAX wrote:
I was just playing the good samaritan
Wouldn't the good Samaritan inform the lady of her (inadvertent?) transgression ... and leave it to her to trace the lawyer and/or take further action?

Yes, that is exactly what I am going to do! Thanks OL7MAX and how are you doing anyway?

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:29 pm

You have my deep respect, jes2jes.

pantaiema · Post by **pantaiema** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:31 pm

jes2jes

From your story I fully believe that your friends know what she were doing.

- It is highly unlikely someone who have been living in the UK for quite a few years did not know that the would not qualify for ILR if you had not been on the work permit for at least 5 years.

- Why did not she use OISC lawyers and the correct fee should not be that high (a quarter of that, ???)

- Someone who know they do not qualify and were willing to pay 4K ???

These is already concrete eveidence that she intent to do that. So Do not even ever think that She was a victim

I think as suggested by other member leave it to her to trace the lawyer and/or take further action. People might forgive the ignorance, but in justice community, she still need to be responsible of what she were doing including any wrong doing.

I am surprising quite reasonable number of fake documents have been reported in this forum (how about out there which have not beedn reported ??) and more interestingly they try twisting the truth claiming that they were the victims???

Pantaiema

jes2jes wrote:
Dawie wrote:How could your friend be a "victim" when it sounds as if she was complicit in the fraud herself. Surely when she received the passport back with a different DOB she would have realised something dodgy was going on? Why didn't she report the lawyer at that stage?

Didn't she question on what basis she got the ILR? I can't believe someone could be that ignorant.
Dawie:

You would be surprised how ignorant a lot of people are when it comes to the Immigration Rules. I accept that she should have queried the basis of her ILR which she didn't (Remember I was not around and did not know the circumstance which, led her to take this action therefore I cannot judge her no matter the result).

People take desperate measures to rectify situations they believe are beyond their control. Most of the time, if not all, it is based on personal choice and decisions.

I am not in any way condoning her actions. And Vin123, I do not go about checking people's status. It just happened that we were having a conversation and I was surprised she has been on ILR this long and not naturalised yet, which led me to be a bit 'nosy' (unduly curious about the affairs of others; prying; meddlesome - according to dictionary.com).

Just to let you know that, I am a happily married bloke with a wonderful wife. I was just playing the good samaritan.

Thanks for your comment and I will help people to stay within the law than break it.

jbinuk · Post by **jbinuk** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:31 pm

Hi

1. I find it quite inappropriate to ask someone or even a friend about his/her immigration status (unless you have vested interests). I would never-ever divulge any info regarding my immigration status to any stranger or even a friend unless he/she needs some advice and I need to give out some info about my immigration status to help him/her. But not up to the point of giving out info just for the sake of him/her knowing my status.

2. I doubt it if your friend have no idea the she obtained an ILR (authentic or dodgy) illegally. I dont see the reason why you need to find out if her status is dodgy and point her to the right direction. The only right direction, in my opinion, is to let her go on with her life. The fact that she's been holding ILR for 3 years and have been in and out of the country without any problems at immigration may mean that her ILR might possibly authentic. So I wonder why you need to dig information about the authenticity or legality of her status. In my opinion, you wont be able to do anything good to her apart from forgeting about it. Otherwise, instead of pointing her to the right direction, you might be leading her to deportation..so let it go mate (if you are trully a friend)...as long as she's living a decent life here..unlike other people who have the real prvilege to live here but do not bother to go to work but instead depends on benefits.

If you are wondering why she's not applying for BC, then that's her choice. You can remain just a UK resident for as long as you want.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:59 pm

jbinuk wrote:Hi

1. I find it quite inappropriate to ask someone or even a friend about his/her immigration status (unless you have vested interests). I would never-ever divulge any info regarding my immigration status to any stranger or even a friend unless he/she needs some advice and I need to give out some info about my immigration status to help him/her. But not up to the point of giving out info just for the sake of him/her knowing my status.

2. I doubt it if your friend have no idea the she obtained an ILR (authentic or dodgy) illegally. I dont see the reason why you need to find out if her status is dodgy and point her to the right direction. The only right direction, in my opinion, is to let her go on with her life. The fact that she's been holding ILR for 3 years and have been in and out of the country without any problems at immigration may mean that her ILR might possibly authentic. So I wonder why you need to dig information about the authenticity or legality of her status. In my opinion, you wont be able to do anything good to her apart from forgeting about it. Otherwise, instead of pointing her to the right direction, you might be leading her to deportation..so let it go mate (if you are trully a friend)...as long as she's living a decent life here..unlike other people who have the real prvilege to live here but do not bother to go to work but instead depends on benefits.

If you are wondering why she's not applying for BC, then that's her choice. You can remain just a UK resident for as long as you want.

My response to OL7MAX above is quoted below mate!

OL7MAX wrote:

I was just playing the good samaritan

Wouldn't the good Samaritan inform the lady of her (inadvertent?) transgression ... and leave it to her to trace the lawyer and/or take further action?

Yes, that is exactly what I am going to do! Thanks OL7MAX and how are you doing anyway?

jbinuk · Post by **jbinuk** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:11 pm

Wouldn't the good Samaritan inform the lady of her (inadvertent?) transgression ??????????????

I dont think you need to..paying 4K for an ILR is enough evidence that she knew and intended to violate the law...if she did it for good or bad reason then I am not the one to judge her.

leave it to her to trace the lawyer and/or take further action??????

I dont think she is that stupid to do that...and someone who thinks that she will do that is I think more stupid.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:40 pm

if she did it for good or bad reason then I am not the one to judge her.

Isn't it nice that, in the end, most of us seem to reach the same conclusions?

munhumutapa · Post by **munhumutapa** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:55 am

This sounds like 419 scam

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Suspicious ILR Story ..... Comments Welcome

Suspicious ILR Story ..... Comments Welcome