Shockin refusal of PR (EEA FAMILY MEMBER)

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:27 pm

Hello guys. Still feeling sick from the letter i got today. Refusal of PR. also stating: make preparations to leave the country!!!
Lebanese national married to a latvian citizen (no EU restrictions). Wife is self employed and am a doctor with a decent salary. We have been here for around 6 yrs we have two Uk born children. Submitted our EEA3 & 4 appsa 8 months ago. UKBA disnt send us a confirmation of app but nothing after. Reason of refusal is insufficient evidence to proof exercising Eu treaty rights.
Seeing my silicitor soon for an appeal package.
I have to say this is demeening. I feel like shit. We have been nothing but good citizens in the uk with no convictions or benefits!!!

I know people way worse than we are who have a british passport now.

Question is, for us we were applying for a cnfirmation of pr, do they have the roght to deport me?? My whole life is here. We have bills to pay schools to attend a career..a life!!! If i leave now means breaking my contract woth my hospital ... My God!!! Am in total panic. Obviously lawyer aaid we have to appeal and i can still work till decision of judge.

Has anyone had this? I mean refusal for EU people does this happen?? What happens now?? What to do and what are the chances ?

PLEASE HELP!

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:41 pm

First thing: relax. The refusal letter is a standard template letter the HO sends to all refusals and you can pretty much ignore what it says.

The HO refused to confirm your PR. this doesn't mean you didn't obtain PR but that the HO wasn't satisfied with the documents you provided to confirm your status. You can legally stay in the UK as long as you are in accordance with the EEA regulations (i.e. your wife has been exercising treaty rights).

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:44 pm

Jambo wrote:First thing: relax. The refusal letter is a standard template letter the HO sends to all refusals and you can pretty much ignore what it says.

The HO refused to confirm your PR. this doesn't mean you didn't obtain PR but that the HO wasn't satisfied with the documents you provided to confirm your status. You can legally stay in the UK as long as you are in accordance with the EEA regulations (i.e. your wife has been exercising treaty rights).

Thats what the logic says, however they are saying that she has failed to provide evidence that she is exercising eu rights (although nothing changed from when we got our 5 yrs permit, on the basis of her exercising eu rights). she also got a PR refused by the way!!

Post by **Jambo** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:53 pm

You can appeal or reapply with additional documents.

I don't know what evidence you provided to support the application but you might find this post useful - Supporting Documentation Required for Self-Employed Apps.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:56 pm

Jambo wrote:You can appeal or reapply with additional documents.

I don't know what evidence you provided to support the application but you might find this post useful - Supporting Documentation Required for Self-Employed Apps.

thanks for your reply. i will be appealing as they didnt give me any other option (i.e to reapply) on the refusal letter. straight forward: appeal or leave.

Post by **Obie** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:58 pm

In what capacity was she exercising treaty rights, and did your solicitor advice you to provide the necessary documents with your application.

If insufficient proof was not provide, it is inevitable that you application stood to be refused.

In any event section 78 prevent you from being removed whiles an appeal under Section 82.

In any event the letter is simply generic in nature.

PR under national is not subject to good chatacter, either you meet the requirements or you dont.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:03 pm

Hello Obie and thanks. My wife is self employed. She could have also applied as self sufficient but we didnt cause we were sure everything was in order. She actually has been employed now for 3 months. i will be meeting my sol. in a few days.
i understand that they cant remove me whislt am appealing, but what are the options now. Worst case scenario? given that my wife an EU citizen working and paying tax, me too..what could happen in the court?

Post by **Obie** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:08 pm

If you fail to meet the requirement, then the option is open to you to make a new applucation for residence card. You could even raise that up at a court hearing.

If your solicitor knows what he is doing, then you need not worry. You will be fine.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:14 pm

Obie wrote:If you fail to meet the requirement, then the option is open to you to make a new applucation for residence card. You could even raise that up at a court hearing.

If your solicitor knows what he is doing, then you need not worry. You will be fine.

thanks guys. ill post updates

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:03 am

You are right to feel strongly aggrieved about the tone of the generic letter. You can complain about this if you wish, but I suspect you have more pressing matters for now. Also, if there was evidence that your wife is exercising treaty rights just now, you should have been issued with a residence card.

You need to focus in on what your wife is doing and has been doing for the past five years. Your activities are pretty much irrelevant. If she meets the requirements for PR, then so will you.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:54 pm

So just to get this straight. Am going to my sol tmrw. Given that my eu wife and me (noneu) had both of our pr refused, do we both have to go for appeal or only my wofe- given that am an eu family member?

Post by **Obie** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:25 pm

You both have to go, your appeals will be linked.

However the success of your will be dependant on hers.

I am sure the sol will explain it all to you.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:32 pm

While in your situation, I can understand why you might want to engage the legal profession, the type of application you are making ought to be pretty simple. By all means listen to the legal advice, but be wary of fees.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:49 pm

nemerkh wrote:thanks for your reply. i will be appealing as they didnt give me any other option (i.e to reapply) on the refusal letter. straight forward: appeal or leave.

What exactly did the refusal letter say about leaving? Exact words would be very helpful.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:37 pm

Saw a sol. > 1000£

Refusal letter to my eu cit wife said that she failed to provide sufficient evidence for them (dunno whom) to deem her exercising eu treaty roghts. Mind you they didnt send any requests to provide ecidence throught the processing time of the application.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:44 pm

nemerkh wrote:Saw a sol. > 1000£
Refusal letter to my eu cit wife said that she failed to provide sufficient evidence for them (dunno whom) to deem her exercising eu treaty roghts. Mind you they didnt send any requests to provide ecidence throught the processing time of the application.

is there a specific amount of income needed for a self employed person in order for this person to exercise EU treaty rights?

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:01 pm

nemerkh wrote:
nemerkh wrote:Saw a sol. > 1000£ :(
Refusal letter to my eu cit wife said that she failed to provide sufficient evidence for them (dunno whom) to deem her exercising eu treaty roghts. Mind you they didnt send any requests to provide ecidence throught the processing time of the application.
is there a specific amount of income needed for a self employed person in order for this person to exercise EU treaty rights?

No, it needs to be "genuine and effective"

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:06 pm

nemerkh wrote:Saw a sol. > 1000£
Refusal letter to my eu cit wife said that she failed to provide sufficient evidence for them (dunno whom) to deem her exercising eu treaty roghts. Mind you they didnt send any requests to provide ecidence throught the processing time of the application.

They use to, but not anymore, as requesting further evidence seems to waste time and manpower.

As stated before, it is not the amount of money made from the self-employment that is conclusive to the attainment of that status, but the effective and genuine nature of the activities that counts.

I guess your solicitor would have explained this, and inform you the best way forward.

Babz · Post by **Babz** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:10 pm

nemerkh wrote:Saw a sol. > 1000£
Refusal letter to my eu cit wife said that she failed to provide sufficient evidence for them (dunno whom) to deem her exercising eu treaty roghts. Mind you they didnt send any requests to provide ecidence throught the processing time of the application.

You may consider reapplying as well...

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:57 am

Can i reapply whilst this i have my appeal pending? Or do i wait for the outcome? I pressume if the outcome is negative that leaves me no choice but to reapply. At the moment my wife is employed alongside her selfempl so i gues she is exercising eu rights hence i assume i shouldnt be leaving the uk or losing my currebt job.

Kitty · Post by **Kitty** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:03 pm

As others have posted it would be really helpful if you could give more detail from the refusal letter: when they refuse for lack of sufficient evidence they usually make some reference to what you did supply, and give some kind of summary of any "gaps".

If the issue is that the Home Office has not accepted some of your documents, then an appeal might be the better route.

In total, appealing and making a new application will probably take a similar length of time. New applications take up to 6 months; an appeal is usually listed for a hearing in about 8 weeks but the Home Office can take 3 months or so to issue documents if you win.

If you have concerns about your own employment, then you will probably be better off submitting a new application because that will generate an up-to-date COA for you. You can state in an application for PR that if it is not accepted that you have PR, then in the alternative you wish to apply for a Residence Card: there is no requirement for EEA applications to be made on a particular form so as long as you provide some of your wife's recent wage slips you should at least get another 5-year RC that you can use to support your employment while you get any other issues sorted out.

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:01 pm

the refusal letter said we didnt provide sufficient evidence in order to deem us exercising eu treaty rights. between brackets an example was given for Business bank statements??! although i dont think that was obligatory as far as i know.
my solicitor said now that my wife has been employed for last couple of months, she is exercising eu rights and therefore so am i, hence shouldnt be an issue with employment.
to be honest i dunno what to expect anymore. i have been let down by the ukba and am upset about it. we have been really good citizens and now this. as i mentioned before i know alot worse people who got their prs based on lies and despite their criminal records. but oh well, i also do understand that person characteristics dont play a role so the hell with it.
the way i see it, i think we will lose the appeal and we are gonna have to send the application for 5 yrs all over again..just great

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:37 pm

It will not be helpful for you to compare your case to perceived fraudulent ones.

If your family member exercises treaty rights, you can be in the UK and you can work. Concentrate on that.

Post by **Obie** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:34 pm

nemerkh wrote:the refusal letter said we didnt provide sufficient evidence in order to deem us exercising eu treaty rights. between brackets an example was given for Business bank statements??! although i dont think that was obligatory as far as i know.
my solicitor said now that my wife has been employed for last couple of months, she is exercising eu rights and therefore so am i, hence shouldnt be an issue with employment.
to be honest i dunno what to expect anymore. i have been let down by the ukba and am upset about it. we have been really good citizens and now this. as i mentioned before i know alot worse people who got their prs based on lies and despite their criminal records. but oh well, i also do understand that person characteristics dont play a role so the hell with it.
the way i see it, i think we will lose the appeal and we are gonna have to send the application for 5 yrs all over again..just great

You seem quite pessimistic. You may very well qualify for PR given your circumstance.

In any event, you could still have you appeal allowed if you fail to qualify, as under section 85, your circumstance under the EEA regulation as at the day of your appeal will have to be considered

nemerkh · Post by **nemerkh** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:32 pm

With regards to travelling, i have my 5 yrs residence permit now expired and am in the process of appeal. question is, can i fly with my wife to Latvia, her country of origin? well i kow i can leave the UK, i also know essentially they want a family visa for the way back, but given that we both have freedom of movement, do u think i can re-enter the UK successfully without a visa? with my wife that is?

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Shockin refusal of PR (EEA FAMILY MEMBER)

Shockin refusal of PR (EEA FAMILY MEMBER)