Biometrics appointment wait time in Lisbon

[clavelle]

My husband of two years is an Italian passport holder, currently doing an MA in the UK. I am a dual national of Canada and the US, and have been in the UK for the last few months as a visitor. Now that it looks like we'll be staying in the UK a bit longer, I'm planning to leave to apply for the EEA family permit somewhere in Europe. Ideally, wherever it's fastest, but I would prefer to apply in Lisbon, where I have friends I can stay with.

Because Lisbon has a mobile biometrics clinic that is only open one day a week, and because I only have a few windows when I can make the trip, I would love to know what the wait time is for appointments, to see if it would better to go elsewhere. However, it seems like you have to designate the city on your online application, and only after that's submitted can you make the appointment. I'd hate to apply and then find out the only available appointments are three months from now. Does anyone know if there's a way to check the appointment situation before applying? Or does anyone know the general situation in Lisbon?

Also, since my husband can't get away from school, could I take his Italian passport with me to have the certified copy for the application made at the Italian consulate in Lisbon (and he would use his ID card if needed, while I'm away)?

Thanks in advance!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My husband of two years is an Italian passport holder, currently doing an MA in the UK. I am a dual national of Canada and the US, and have been in the UK for the last few months as a visitor. Now that it looks like we'll be staying in the UK a bit longer, I'm planning to leave to apply for the EEA family permit somewhere in Europe. Ideally, wherever it's fastest, but I would prefer to apply in Lisbon, where I have friends I can stay with.

You may have already been legally resident in the UK over the last two years, if you have been living with your husband in the UK since he arrived.

You are presently legally resident in the UK if: (1) he is a student in the UK and (2) you are married to him and (3) you are in the UK.

Either way, there is no need for you to leave the UK. In fact I would recommend you NOT leave the UK, because things can only go wrong if you do and there is no benefit.

You can, if you wish, apply on Monday for a Residence Card, though you do not need to (it is optional). It is useful for proving that you have a right to work, though you can technically work now.

Whenever you travel with your husband, be sure to carry your marriage certificate so you can prove that you are married. For your interest read through: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

The UK does not make the holding residence documentation mandatory. You will not get into trouble for not having a family permit or residence card.

That said, a residence card is a useful document and I recommend that you apply for one.

You will need to evidence that you are married to an EU national and that the EU national is living in accordance with the regulations. In your case, it would be evidence that he is enrolled a student and holds comprehensive sickness insurance.

Start looking here

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ts-family/

[clavelle]

You may have already been legally resident in the UK over the last two years, if you have been living with your husband in the UK since he arrived.

I have been married two years, we have not been in the UK for two years.

Either way, there is no need for you to leave the UK. In fact I would recommend you NOT leave the UK, because things can only go wrong if you do and there is no benefit.

I want to be able to leave the UK, on weekend trips and if I might need to visit family at some point in the future, so that is why I want to apply for the family permit. I've been in the UK since March, but obviously being stuck inside the UK is not sustainable. I understand that I could travel with my marriage certificate, however because my husband was not born in Italy, but in Brazil, I'm sure it would require some explaining at the border every time and having the permit would be less of a headache

So, if anyone has any information about my original question on finding out appointment wait times for the Lisbon mobile biometrics clinic before completing the online application, so that I can choose the best location to apply, that would be much appreciated! Thank you!

[fysicus]

With a Canadian and/or American passport you already have no travel restrictions within Europe.
An EEA FP or a Residence Card will only confirm your right to live and work in UK as long as your husband is exercising treaty rights in the UK.
As you are apparently in the UK already, skip the EEA FP and just apply for a Residence Card (EEA2) as Directive/2004/38/EC and EUsmileWEallsmile have already recommended.

[clavelle]

Thank you very much, now I understand a bit better what the previous two posters were suggesting. I had misunderstood and thought I needed the 6-month permit prior to applying for the Residence Card. When I mentioned wanting to travel, my concern is about coming back into the UK, not actually about any other destination.

At the end of August I will have been in the UK for six months. I currently have the 'Leave to enter for six months, employment and recourse to public funds prohibited' stamp in my US passport. My husband finishes his coursework in September and then we have about an 85% chance of staying on in the UK for his work. I have to leave the UK in both September and October, and my husband has to travel in August (so, I would need to request our passports back almost immediately if we went that route).

Is it better to apply for the 5-year Residence Card now, or just pop down to Lisbon for a 10 days and get the 6-month permit?

[Jambo]

Before making unnecessary appointments I suggest you read this story from your countryman - American stuck in Italy and this story from your (other) countryman - I re-entered with expired Family Permit (non-VISA national).

[clavelle]

Thank you, Jambo. The second link was particularly helpful. It sounds like the best course of action might be to hold off on anything and then apply for the RC after my husband has 100% been hired and we know that we'll be staying in the UK for a few more years.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

or just pop down to Lisbon for a 10 days and get the 6-month permit?

Don't do that whatever you decide to do. You may end up causing yourself problems that you don't need.

If you wish, apply for a residence card and ask for your passports back at the point of application. You would not need to be without your passports for long. I strongly recommend that you do this. I would not wait until your husband is employed. Read the link I'd posted earlier.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

At the end of August I will have been in the UK for six months. I currently have the 'Leave to enter for six months, employment and recourse to public funds prohibited' stamp in my US passport.

You entered as a regular tourist. That said, your rights under directive 2004/38/ec still apply to you right now. You can work.

[clavelle]

We had been debating on going away for a weekend in Amsterdam, but thought I would have problems coming back in without a family permit. After this really informative thread (thank you everyone!), though, it looks like I can still go. Since I am currently here as a tourist, upon re-entering from Amsterdam I'll be sure to state that I want to enter as an EEA spouse, as hellrose detailed on the link jambo posted.

If you wish, apply for a residence card and ask for your passports back at the point of application. You would not need to be without your passports for long. I strongly recommend that you do this. I would not wait until your husband is employed. Read the link I'd posted earlier.

I have read the link, but could you explain exactly why this would be the best decision?

We may be in London in September, but we may also be in Amsterdam, or even another country outside Europe. The rental contract on our flat in Manchester ends at the beginning of September, any job my husband would accept would be in London, so we would be moving no matter what happens. I don't see the advantage of going through all that and also simultaneously submitting all the documents for a 5-year RC, then crossing our fingers the documents come back quickly, when there is still a chance that we may not even need to the RC. Please let me know what I'm missing.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

You would do well to read directive 2004/38/ec in full. If having done so, you still have questions, please ask.

An EU national, who moves to another EU state is entitled to a number of rights. This includes having their family with them.

[clavelle]

I have read directive 2004/38/ec, but I'm afraid I still fail to see any strong advantage to my applying for the RC and crossing my fingers I get our documents back within two weeks of submission if I'm not yet certain I will be in the UK (or Europe) after August. I am not seeking employment or any benefits.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think people have been very clear with you:
(1) You are presently legally resident in the UK and can remain for as long as your husband remains legally in the UK
(2) You can travel together in Europe but be sure to carry your marriage certificate
(3) You can and likely should apply for a Residence Card
(4) It would likely be a mistake to apply for an EEA Family Permit, because it gives you nothing and has risks associated with the application

[clavelle]

Thank you. I'm sorry, I guess I have not been clear then. It's the 'should' in your number 3 that I don't understand. If I knew I would be staying in the UK for sure, I could see why I should do it, but as I was trying to explain, that is not certain yet and, as I already knew, I am here legally.

Anyway, the fact that I shouldn't apply for the family permit is clear.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you will be remaining in the UK for more than 6 months, or if you might possibly want to work, then I think applying for a RC is a good idea.

Doing an RC application has the added benefit of marking you in UKBA files as being the family member of an EU citizen. Any UKBA employee can pull that up and see that the application is in progress (or has been issued).

Otherwise your sole proof of the important family relationship is the marriage certificate. So carry that with you when you travel.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Please also bear in mind that students are required to have comprehensive sickness insurance in order to be considered to be living in accordance with the regulations.

[clavelle]

Just checking back in to update on my situation.

My husband and I just spent a long weekend in Amsterdam and returned to Manchester on Tuesday morning. We went together in the non-EU passport line and stated that I was entering as the spouse of an EEA passport holder (Italian), and presented our original marriage certificate from Canada, our passports, and a letter from my husband's university attesting to his enrollment in an MA program. After a little chastising for 'creating extra work' for the officer, and telling us it would be 'ideal' to get the family permit, he called his superior to get the A1 stamp and stamped my passport. Then he wrote on the stamp 'leave to enter for only 2 months'.

Next step is applying for the EEA2 Residence Card (and requesting the return of our documents ASAP). Hoping that will be straightforward with just the requested completed application, passports, passport photos, bank statements showing sufficient funds/proof of insurance/letter from university, and marriage certificate. Unfortunately the university letter only states he will be in the program until the end of August (when the coursework component ends, but he'll be enrolled until next March), but I'm hoping that won't matter.

Thanks for everyone's help here!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

After a little chastising for 'creating extra work' for the officer, and telling us it would be 'ideal' to get the family permit, he called his superior to get the A1 stamp and stamped my passport. Then he wrote on the stamp 'leave to enter for only 2 months'.

I would urge you to complain. You do not have "leave to enter" and so this is very misleading.

Cute also that it created extra work. Since UKBA does not issue EEA Family Permits on a priority basis, as they are required to, then it is clear that people will take advantage of MRAX entry at the border.

He should be complaining about the UKBA international team rather than about you.

[clavelle]

Thanks. Do you think they gave me the incorrect stamp, then? Or rather that I should file a complaint about the way the situation was handled?
He said it was the 1-A stamp. I had read elsewhere of people getting an entry stamp for two months (such as this post: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=542855), so I had just assumed this was something they occasionally do. Honestly, I was expecting six months, and unfortunately only noticed it after we had left the desk. Although given the attitude we received, I'm not sure I would have pushed the issue much with that particular officer.

In the meantime I'm in a rush to send of my EEA2 application ASAP!

[wiggsy]

remember the CSI for your EU spouse (AND YOURSELF).

And then when he finds his job etc, you won't need the CSI.

Did you hold Travel Insurance (including sickness/injury which could be compared to CSI) / CSI during the six months you were here? if so, then your already six months into your 5 years to PR...

Also: Once the two months are up, YOU DO NOT need to leave. The Code 1A is just "entry clearance" to allow you across the border...

Even if you overstay that, you are not illegal as long as your spouse is a qualified person.

[clavelle]

Thanks, wiggsy. According to the UKBA website and the EEA2 form itself, CSI is only required for my spouse, the student (unless you know something that's not on the form). But that is very good to know about the insurance helping me along in the timeline for PR.

I'm anxious to go ahead and submit my application for the EEA2 since I know I have to travel to Germany by myself in late October and would like to avoid the grilling upon reentering the UK.

[wiggsy]

Thanks, wiggsy. According to the UKBA website and the EEA2 form itself, CSI is only required for my spouse, the student (unless you know something that's not on the form). But that is very good to know about the insurance helping me along in the timeline for PR.

I'm certain I read in a UKBA file that it is the EEA AND Family members that need CSI. - Lemme take a look... (or if Im wrong, somebody please correct me )

Edit:

Knew I wasnt going crazy...
Self Sufficient and CSI

See the document: Notice 07 11 Comprehensive sickness insurance revised and reissued.pdf

Page 1 - (B)2 - 3.

2. Regulation 4 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 (“the Regulations”) stipulates that in order to reside as a student or self-sufficient person an EEA national must have comprehensive sickness insurance.

3. For family members applying for a residence card on the basis that the relevant EEA national is exercising Treaty rights as a self-sufficient person, they must also submit evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance that covers all family members. This is in accordance with regulation 4(2)(b) of the Regulations.

Also:

EEA Checklist

Economically self-sufficient
Evidence that there are sufficient funds to maintain yourself and any family members included in your application during your intended stay in the UK on this basis.................��
This can be:
•
bank statements; and/or
•
evidence of the employment or self-employment of any of your family members legally working and residing in the UK with you (see the ‘Worker’ and ‘Self-employed’ lists above).
Evidence that you have comprehensive sickness insurance for yourself and for all family members whose right to reside in the UK is dependent on your right to do so. ...............��
2
Student
A school/college/university letter confirming enrolment on a course of study and the course dates.....................................................................................................................��
Confirmation that you have sufficient financial resources to support you while studying..��
Evidence that you have comprehensive sickness insurance............................................��

I know the student part doesn't state "and all your family members" but ensure that's the case... for the sake of a few quid extra, why risk your PR ...

......

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... ion/4/made
I may actually be reading their documents wrong though...

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(c) (Self Sufficient), where family members of the person concerned reside in the United Kingdom and their right to reside is dependent upon their being family members of that person—

(a)the requirement for that person to have sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence shall only be satisfied if his resources and those of the family members are sufficient to avoid him and the family members becoming such a burden; .

(b)the requirement for that person to have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom shall only be satisfied if he and his family members have such cover.


(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(d) (Student), where family members of the person concerned reside in the United Kingdom and their right to reside is dependent upon their being family members of that person, the requirement for that person to assure the Secretary of State that he has sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence shall only be satisfied if he assures the Secretary of State that his resources and those of the family members are sufficient to avoid him and the family members becoming such a burden.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

No need to delay on the RC application.

I would complain that the officer incorrectly referred to "leave to remain", which does not apply to you. And that it was for only two months.

[wiggsy]

No need to delay on the RC application.

I would complain that the officer incorrectly referred to "leave to remain", which does not apply to you. And that it was for only two months.

Directive: CSI for students family?