2 applicants at once, 1 name issue & misc questions

[suli]

Hello,
Starting I would like to first thank everyone for their efforts to put this website together. I have been a silent reader for a month now and have benefited a lot.
I am british citizen and have been married to my spouse from pakistan for a year and living here since then. I now intend to come back and start working untill i fulfill the financial requirements before applying for her visa. My grandmother(over 65) is living here alone also and after the success of my wifes visa will not have anyone to look after her.
The following are my questions:
1.Will I be able to apply for a settlement visa for both my wife and grandmother and if so will one 18,600 be enough for both or will i have to have more than this amount. Also what are my chances on two cases(ie will this effect my spouse visa). Please include any further reqiurements.
2.In all documents my wife has only one name which is her surname in her passport, will this be an issue in applying for a visa and further on in britain?
3.For Pakistan around Islamabad Area what is the easiest english test and where are the official centers. Please also advise on english for total begginers including peperation material.
I have other questions but I have made a really long post please if anyone could answer these questions I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much in advance.

[Lucapooka]

It seems you are choosing to leave the GM alone and that's fine, but unless the GM has physical incapacitation that prevents her from performing basic domestic tasks for herself, like cooking and bathing, and the cost of hiring a maid to do this for her is beyond her or your means (and that sort of thing is dirt cheap in PK), it's not likely she will be granted a settlement visa for the UK.

Please refer to the requirements for this category.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... dependent/

With regard to your wife's application, I assume you know that the 18.6 mark is a salary scale per year rather than an amount of savings?

[suli]

To lucapooka,
thanks for your reply
Yes i understand that the 18600 is a yearly equirement.
With regards to the gm issue, she is unable to take care of herself. with regards to the maid issue as we live in a village there are no maids that will be prepared to spend the night with her which is the most time in which she needs help. So will i be able to take two cases and what is the financial requirement for two cases.
Do you know anything about the one name issue (she only has a surname)?

[Lucapooka]

With regards to the gm issue, she is unable to take care of herself.

So that's fine, but rather than take your word for this, the UKBA will need to see the medical evidence that confirms this.

with regards to the maid issue as we live in a village there are no maids that will be prepared to spend the night with her which is the most time in which she needs help.

In Pakistan?! Perhaps that's fine, but rather than take your word for this, the UKBA will need to see the evidence that confirms this. Have you any evidence from the local authority that jobs advertised in that capacity are hard to fill? And lets not forget that it's your choice to abandon this lady; you could easily stay there and care for her yourself.

Adult dependent relatives

33. Evidence of the family relationship between the applicant(s) and the sponsor should take the form of birth or adoption certificates, or other documentary evidence.

34. Evidence that, as a result of age, illness or disability, the applicant requires long-term personal care should take the form of:

(a) Medical evidence that the applicant's physical or mental condition means that they cannot perform everyday tasks; and
(b) This must be from a doctor or other health professional.

35. Evidence that the applicant is unable, even with the practical and financial help of the sponsor in the UK, to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living should be from:

(a) a central or local health authority;
(b) a local authority; or
(c) a doctor or other health professional.

36. If the applicant's required care has previously been provided through a private arrangement, the applicant must provide details of that arrangement and why it is no longer available.

37. If the applicant's required level of care is not, or is no longer, affordable because payment previously made for arranging this care is no longer being made, the applicant must provide records of that payment and an explanation of why that payment cannot continue. If financial support has been provided by the sponsor or other close family in the UK, the applicant must provide an explanation of why this cannot continue or is no longer sufficient to enable the required level of care to be provided.

Also, do bear in mind that any professional opinions you provide may be challenged by the UKBA, who have the right to seek independent opinion for themselves.

[MPH80]

For clarity - an adult dependant relative application doesn't have a specific income threshold. You have to be able to show (and you will be asked to sign an undertaking) that you can look after her without recourse to public funds for 5 years.

This is why the application is so difficult. You might live in a village where no one there wants to do it - but I bet you could pay someone to move from elsewhere - and it'd STILL be cheaper than looking after her here ...

In the question of her surname, while this might not be an issue for the UKBA - I will guarantee you it'll be a problem as she tries to move through life here in the UK. How many online sites expect a firstname and a surname ... the electoral register is setup like that ... etc.

I'd get the name changes personally.

[suli]

For clarity - an adult dependant relative application doesn't have a specific income threshold. You have to be able to show (and you will be asked to sign an undertaking) that you can look after her without recourse to public funds for 5 years.

This is why the application is so difficult. You might live in a village where no one there wants to do it - but I bet you could pay someone to move from elsewhere - and it'd STILL be cheaper than looking after her here ...

In the question of her surname, while this might not be an issue for the UKBA - I will guarantee you it'll be a problem as she tries to move through life here in the UK. How many online sites expect a firstname and a surname ... the electoral register is setup like that ... etc.

I'd get the name changes personally.

thanks for your reply. will she be able to get in to uk with only one name though(considering visa app. Border control ect.)?

[suli]

With regards to the gm issue, she is unable to take care of herself.

So that's fine, but rather than take your word for this, the UKBA will need to see the medical evidence that confirms this.

with regards to the maid issue as we live in a village there are no maids that will be prepared to spend the night with her which is the most time in which she needs help.

In Pakistan?! Perhaps that's fine, but rather than take your word for this, the UKBA will need to see the evidence that confirms this. Have you any evidence from the local authority that jobs advertised in that capacity are hard to fill? And lets not forget that it's your choice to abandon this lady; you could easily stay there and care for her yourself.

Adult dependent relatives

33. Evidence of the family relationship between the applicant(s) and the sponsor should take the form of birth or adoption certificates, or other documentary evidence.

34. Evidence that, as a result of age, illness or disability, the applicant requires long-term personal care should take the form of:

(a) Medical evidence that the applicant's physical or mental condition means that they cannot perform everyday tasks; and
(b) This must be from a doctor or other health professional.

35. Evidence that the applicant is unable, even with the practical and financial help of the sponsor in the UK, to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living should be from:

(a) a central or local health authority;
(b) a local authority; or
(c) a doctor or other health professional.

36. If the applicant's required care has previously been provided through a private arrangement, the applicant must provide details of that arrangement and why it is no longer available.

37. If the applicant's required level of care is not, or is no longer, affordable because payment previously made for arranging this care is no longer being made, the applicant must provide records of that payment and an explanation of why that payment cannot continue. If financial support has been provided by the sponsor or other close family in the UK, the applicant must provide an explanation of why this cannot continue or is no longer sufficient to enable the required level of care to be provided.

Also, do bear in mind that any professional opinions you provide may be challenged by the UKBA, who have the right to seek independent opinion for themselves.

With regards to the medical side it is not too difficult to prove but i am stuck on the latter part ie.the maid issue. Job applicant proof is impossible as here there is no such things with maids you just call them to come. Along with that there is the issue that gm will be depressed without family (but looks like ukba is not prepared to take that for an answer). The reoson why i can no longer stay to look after her is because i have no income here and even if i work here will not be able to keep up the costs. Besides that being born in britain apart from gm all my friends and family are there so surely i have the right for family life. Any suggestions please.
Any way can i apply for these two visas at the same time and what would be financial (or any other) criteria?

[MPH80]

thanks for your reply. will she be able to get in to uk with only one name though(considering visa app. Border control ect.)?

It should be possible - but then you get into problems if she changes her name here - e.g. passport not matching bank statements etc. Best thing to do - get it sorted before she comes.

With regards to the medical side it is not too difficult to prove but i am stuck on the latter part ie.the maid issue. Job applicant proof is impossible as here there is no such things with maids you just call them to come.

So they do exist then - and you can get them. Pay someone enough and they'll stay overnight - it's just a question of how much that is. You need to find that out so you can use it in evidence against UKBA if you've any hope of getting this visa.

Along with that there is the issue that gm will be depressed without family (but looks like ukba is not prepared to take that for an answer).

You're right - they won't.

The reoson why i can no longer stay to look after her is because i have no income here and even if i work here will not be able to keep up the costs. Besides that being born in britain apart from gm all my friends and family are there so surely i have the right for family life. Any suggestions please.

UKBA position is quite clear on this. You have a right to a family life - but that protection is not specifically a right to a family life in the UK.

People cross borders all the time and leave friends/family behind - just as my wife did when she arrived here for example. To argue you're a special case because you don't want to leave is untenable.

Any way can i apply for these two visas at the same time and what would be financial (or any other) criteria?

I don't believe so - no. Even if you could - you would be very foolish to link the two applications (spouse and elderly dependant) as the latter of those will take FAR longer than the former.

You need to think of them as separate - and I've already explained the financial requirements for an ADR visa.

M.

[suli]

It should be possible - but then you get into problems if she changes her name here - e.g. passport not matching bank statements etc. Best thing to do - get it sorted before she comes.

If i leave her birth certificate, marraige certificate(both nadra and union council) as it is in one name and make her name as the given name and give her my surname in nadra card(nic identity card) and passport will that be enough or will this create problems (as birth marriage certificate will only have one name and identity card and passport will have two)?

So they do exist then - and you can get them. Pay someone enough and they'll stay overnight - it's just a question of how much that is. You need to find that out so you can use it in evidence against UKBA if you've any hope of getting this visa.

This is my weakest link i believe.

I don't believe so - no. Even if you could - you would be very foolish to link the two applications (spouse and elderly dependant) as the latter of those will take FAR longer than the former.

You need to think of them as separate - and I've already explained the financial requirements for an ADR visa.

Just to clear my doubt, can i be a sponsor for two seperate visas at the same time then? (and not link them two together)

Also can please you give me your personal advise (anyone else also welcome)
Thanks a lot for replying.

[suli]

Does the english test have to be valid at the time of entry into uk or only at the time of application of visa at islamabad?
Also for how long is Tb test valid for? (i understand that this has to be valid at both visa application and entry into uk-am i correct?)

[suli]

To MPH80(or any other guru) did u get a chance to have look at this. Sorry for the trouble.

It should be possible - but then you get into problems if she changes her name here - e.g. passport not matching bank statements etc. Best thing to do - get it sorted before she comes.

If i leave her birth certificate, marraige certificate(both nadra and union council) as it is in one name and make her name as the given name and give her my surname in nadra card(nic identity card) and passport will that be enough or will this create problems (as birth marriage certificate will only have one name and identity card and passport will have two)?

So they do exist then - and you can get them. Pay someone enough and they'll stay overnight - it's just a question of how much that is. You need to find that out so you can use it in evidence against UKBA if you've any hope of getting this visa.

This is my weakest link i believe.

I don't believe so - no. Even if you could - you would be very foolish to link the two applications (spouse and elderly dependant) as the latter of those will take FAR longer than the former.

You need to think of them as separate - and I've already explained the financial requirements for an ADR visa.

Just to clear my doubt, can i be a sponsor for two seperate visas at the same time then? (and not link them two together)

Also can please you give me your personal advise (anyone else also welcome)
Thanks a lot for replying.

[Brigid from Ireland]

I think your approach regarding the name is a good one, as a woman takes the surname of her husband on marriage in the UK, so it is easy to see where the new surname comes from.

Regarding English language test - if your wife is only beginning to learn English it might be better for you to work in Ireland first, bring her to Ireland as wife of EU migrant worker (no English test, Requirement is that you work, no need for high earnings) and ten months later she can go to UK with you if you get a job there (no English test for UK either, as she would continue to be wife of migrant worker, not wife of UK citizen).

[suli]

I think your approach regarding the name is a good one, as a woman takes the surname of her husband on marriage in the UK, so it is easy to see where the new surname comes from.

Regarding English language test - if your wife is only beginning to learn English it might be better for you to work in Ireland first, bring her to Ireland as wife of EU migrant worker (no English test, Requirement is that you work, no need for high earnings) and ten months later she can go to UK with you if you get a job there (no English test for UK either, as she would continue to be wife of migrant worker, not wife of UK citizen).

thanks for your reply. Can you give me more info on this please?

[Brigid from Ireland]

I assume that the only EU country you have worked in is the UK. Therefore if you wish to bring wife/grandmother to UK you must do so under the national law of the UK. You know the requirements - English language for spouse and high earnings for you. Difficult to get permission for grandmother.

In contrast, if you wish to bring your wife to Ireland, you do so as an EU migrant worker. This is a different and much more generous set of rights, as the rights are under EU law, not UK law. You have the right to come to Ireland at any time (as you are an EU citizen) but you can bring your wife with you for three months with no difficulty (just apply for visa). Then by the end of the three months you must have a job or be self employed. The easiest is to have a job, so as soon as you get the job you send the payslips to the office in Ireland and ask for your wife to be allowed to stay for five years. The office will give the stamp under EU law because you are now a migrant worker, with EU migrant worker right to have your spouse remain with you. Big advantage - there is no set amount you need to earn, so any job will do. Other advantage - your wife does not need English language at all.

Then after working in Ireland for a time you move back to the UK. The length of time required to work in Ireland is not specified, but maybe 10 months is considered ok. You are now still a migrant worker, because you are moving from one EU country (Ireland) to another EU country (the UK) to get work. So the same requirement - get a job in the UK and your wife does not need to pass an English langauge test (spouse of migrant worker has more rights than spouse of UK citizen).

Once your wife has the new passport with her name as a first name and your name as a surname, you simply send the passports and an original marriage cert to the relevant office and ask for a visa for your wife to come to Ireland, as you wish to look for work here. This is granted with ease.

You can apply for the grandmother also - not sure how this will be treated, think it is possible to get visa for grandmother, but not sure what chance of success. Apply for visa for grandmother at the same time as visa for wife - one has no impact on the other. The last year I have statistics for says that 95 Irish visas were granted for those who were not spouse or child of worker. Statistics were not useful, as they did not say if any were refused. Maybe 95 applied and all granted? Maybe 1000 apply and only 95 granted? I do not know the answer to this question.

The Ireland forum here is very good - lots of explanations there.

[suli]

I am really stuck on changing/adding the name issue. Please can anyone who knows about pakistan procedures help me out. Basically my wife has one name on all documents. If she has only one name on birth/marraige certificates and we change her name to first name and add my surname as her surname on nic card, should nadra be willing to do so? Also as her passport is already made with only one name will the passport office accept the change? And if her birth/marraige certificates only have one name wheras nic and passport will have two is this okay for ukba?

[suli]

I am really stuck on changing/adding the name issue. Please can anyone who knows about pakistan procedures help me out. Basically my wife has one name on all documents. If she has only one name on birth/marraige certificates and we change her name to first name and add my surname as her surname on nic card, should nadra be willing to do so? Also as her passport is already made with only one name will the passport office accept the change? And if her birth/marraige certificates only have one name wheras nic and passport will have two is this okay for ukba?

Please can someone answer this question please.

[suli]

I am really stuck on changing/adding the name issue. Please can anyone who knows about pakistan procedures help me out. Basically my wife has one name on all documents. If she has only one name on birth/marraige certificates and we change her name to first name and add my surname as her surname on nic card, should nadra be willing to do so? Also as her passport is already made with only one name will the passport office accept the change? And if her birth/marraige certificates only have one name wheras nic and passport will have two is this okay for ukba?

anyone know the answer please.

[suli]

I am really stuck on changing/adding the name issue. Please can anyone who knows about pakistan procedures help me out. Basically my wife has one name on all documents. If she has only one name on birth/marraige certificates and we change her name to first name and add my surname as her surname on nic card, should nadra be willing to do so? Also as her passport is already made with only one name will the passport office accept the change? And if her birth/marraige certificates only have one name wheras nic and passport will have two is this okay for ukba?

we left the marraige certificate as it was and added my surname in nic. Good news nadra accepted. Just passport left now. How ever they did not issue her with cnic but smartcard. Are ukba accepting this?