For those planning to re-apply after refusal

[rsrameshsunil]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

[rehan01]

Well pointed but I think after refusal if u reapply with 28 days than its ok ? Plz correct if I m wrong


Regards

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

[rsrameshsunil]

absolutely, legally that is fine. But even before the new application reaches case worker, it will be rejected as "Invalid" by application validating team because you are not submitting the passport and legally the new application form requires a passport to be submitted otherwise they will mark it "Invalid"..It just a risk.

Well pointed but I think after refusal if u reapply with 28 days than its ok ? Plz correct if I m wrong


Regards

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

[Entrepreneur9]

Its not a risk at all. Why is it a risk? Your passport is with UKBA and not with someone else. You need to write a covering letter and attach it with with your application that you are re-applying with the current documents and the passport is still with them.

[Entrepreneur9]

It is not your fault if they have removed the option from the application form. They cannot refuse you on these grounds.

[rsrameshsunil]

Its not a risk at all. Why is it a risk? Your passport is with UKBA and not with someone else. You need to write a covering letter and attach it with with your application that you are re-applying with the current documents and the passport is still with them.

There you go. You just accepted my point. You need to write a covering letter which itself brings risk. For this reason specifcally, they are not obliged to follow your covering letter. Because you are not doing all thats required there is a risk that it may rejected as invalid.

You will better understand if you look at both the versions of the application form.

[rsrameshsunil]

It is not your fault if they have removed the option from the application form. They cannot refuse you on these grounds.

It is not refusal. Your application will be termed as invalid. Its different from refusal. And this is done by another team even before it reaches case worker.

[tuliprose]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

I don't think there is a risk.

The applicant will refer the caseworker to his/her previous application and that his documents were retained. Caseworker will contact the appropriate department.

[HeretoHelp]

Its not a risk at all. Why is it a risk? Your passport is with UKBA and not with someone else. You need to write a covering letter and attach it with with your application that you are re-applying with the current documents and the passport is still with them.

There you go. You just accepted my point. You need to write a covering letter which itself brings risk. For this reason specifcally, they are not obliged to follow your covering letter. Because you are not doing all thats required there is a risk that it may rejected as invalid.

You will better understand if you look at both the versions of the application form.

Now this make me more confused. I wonder if someone has been refused then he can easily re-apply within 28 days period but you are saying that is not possible. My question is what if someone go for appeal, wait for a decision and if for some reason his appeal is dismissed, can he able to re-apply from there or is that the same scenario like you said above?

Thanks

[rsrameshsunil]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

I don't think there is a risk.

The applicant will refer the caseworker to his/her previous application and that his documents were retained. Caseworker will contact the appropriate department.

There is difference between my point and yours. I am speaking about the rules. While you are focusing on possibilities/covering letters/flexibilities etc.

I am sure if they follow the rules correctly as in the policy they will return the application as invalid. Ofcourse mostly they do consider the situation and offer flexibility.

[rsrameshsunil]

Its not a risk at all. Why is it a risk? Your passport is with UKBA and not with someone else. You need to write a covering letter and attach it with with your application that you are re-applying with the current documents and the passport is still with them.

There you go. You just accepted my point. You need to write a covering letter which itself brings risk. For this reason specifcally, they are not obliged to follow your covering letter. Because you are not doing all thats required there is a risk that it may rejected as invalid.

You will better understand if you look at both the versions of the application form.

Now this make me more confused. I wonder if someone has been refused then he can easily re-apply within 28 days period but you are saying that is not possible. My question is what if someone go for appeal, wait for a decision and if for some reason his appeal is dismissed, can he able to re-apply from there or is that the same scenario like you said above?

Thanks

Dude its just a risk. I am not saying application will be returned as invalid for sure. You might be fine.

[Mr Legal]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

Please don't confuse the applicants in the fourm.This is not the matter of possibilities/covering letters/flexibilities etc,as you suggested.This is a fact that they retain the documents of all refused applicants whose leave is expired at the time of decisions. Application forms are formatted for all in general not for an individual or say an overstayer, in special.Therefore,if a refused applicant may wish to reapply and his documents including passport are already within the UKBA,there is no issue to trace them for the process of that application.Certain things may be silent in the application form of which the UKBA should know,but the applicants will let them know by presenting a full picture of re-application with reference of previous refusal and retention of documents through a covering letter.I think there is no risk that an application will be rejected as invalid mere on this ground.

In addition,that this option of 28days is extended by the UKBA,if you may know.

[KickAss]

One way of making documents easy to trace is by using the ukba reference number in the application form.
When ever UKBA consider an application , they provide a unique reference.
Hence, rejected applicants can provide that number in new application and they will be able to quickly trace that rather then searching and associating information from new application.

[rsrameshsunil]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

Please don't confuse the applicants in the fourm.This is not the matter of possibilities/covering letters/flexibilities etc,as you suggested.This is a fact that they retain the documents of all refused applicants whose leave is expired at the time of decisions. Application forms are formatted for all in general not for an individual or say an overstayer, in special.Therefore,if a refused applicant may wish to reapply and his documents including passport are already within the UKBA,there is no issue to trace them for the process of that application.Certain things may be silent in the application form of which the UKBA should know,but the applicants will let them know by presenting a full picture of re-application with reference of previous refusal and retention of documents through a covering letter.I think there is no risk that an application will be rejected as invalid mere on this ground.

In addition,that this option of 28days is extended by the UKBA,if you may know.

As i have already mentioned, I am speaking about the rules and facts. Not about discretion. Please take a look at the following line available in the new application form on page 54:

"Please note for the application to be valid and complete the applicant’s current passport, travel document or Biometric Residence Permit must be provided unless it is not available for one of the reasons specified on the application form. They should be original documents and not copies."

As i mentioned in the initial post, There used to be three options in the previous application forms:

Lost.
Stolen.
Held with HomeOffice.

and UKBA has removed the last one in the new application form.

Should they implement the above rule. It will be returned as invalid. Simple.

[Choc-Ice]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

Please don't confuse the applicants in the fourm.This is not the matter of possibilities/covering letters/flexibilities etc,as you suggested.This is a fact that they retain the documents of all refused applicants whose leave is expired at the time of decisions. Application forms are formatted for all in general not for an individual or say an overstayer, in special.Therefore,if a refused applicant may wish to reapply and his documents including passport are already within the UKBA,there is no issue to trace them for the process of that application.Certain things may be silent in the application form of which the UKBA should know,but the applicants will let them know by presenting a full picture of re-application with reference of previous refusal and retention of documents through a covering letter.I think there is no risk that an application will be rejected as invalid mere on this ground.

In addition,that this option of 28days is extended by the UKBA,if you may know.

As i have already mentioned, I am speaking about the rules and facts. Not about discretion. Please take a look at the following line available in the new application form on page 54:

"Please note for the application to be valid and complete the applicant’s current passport, travel document or Biometric Residence Permit must be provided unless it is not available for one of the reasons specified on the application form. They should be original documents and not copies."

As i mentioned in the initial post, There used to be three options in the previous application forms:

Lost.
Stolen.
Held with HomeOffice.

and UKBA has removed the last one in the new application form.

Should they implement the above rule. It will be returned as invalid. Simple.

I would agree with the OP! If you read the guidelines carefully, you are permitted 28 days to re-apply after refusal. They provide you with unique ref. number which makes it easier to locate everything that is held on record about you.

So if the validating team receives the application, they cannot just turn it back and say it's invalid without reading the cover letter! As long as you're within the 28days of refusal there should be no problem. Remember, they're human beings and not robots.

[rsrameshsunil]

Just a thought:

if you have been refused for some reason and your visa has expired, then your documents (including passport) would be retained by home office.

Therefore if you are planning to submit a new application as an overstayer in the above case, there is a risk that your application can be refused as "invalid".

This is due to the fact that you cannot submit your passport and because of the following changes in the new application form:

In previous versions of application form there was an option for you to mention that your passport is held by Home Office and therefore you are not submitting it.

But In the new version of application form, they have removed that option. Meaning, if you do not submit your passport along with application it may be refused as invalid. (ofcourse, there is an exception if its lost or stolen).

This appears to be a tricky move by home office to avoid overstayer applications after a refusal.

Just wanted to keep yourself reminded of the risk you take if you are applying as an overstayer without submiting a passport.

Please don't confuse the applicants in the fourm.This is not the matter of possibilities/covering letters/flexibilities etc,as you suggested.This is a fact that they retain the documents of all refused applicants whose leave is expired at the time of decisions. Application forms are formatted for all in general not for an individual or say an overstayer, in special.Therefore,if a refused applicant may wish to reapply and his documents including passport are already within the UKBA,there is no issue to trace them for the process of that application.Certain things may be silent in the application form of which the UKBA should know,but the applicants will let them know by presenting a full picture of re-application with reference of previous refusal and retention of documents through a covering letter.I think there is no risk that an application will be rejected as invalid mere on this ground.

In addition,that this option of 28days is extended by the UKBA,if you may know.

As i have already mentioned, I am speaking about the rules and facts. Not about discretion. Please take a look at the following line available in the new application form on page 54:

"Please note for the application to be valid and complete the applicant’s current passport, travel document or Biometric Residence Permit must be provided unless it is not available for one of the reasons specified on the application form. They should be original documents and not copies."

As i mentioned in the initial post, There used to be three options in the previous application forms:

Lost.
Stolen.
Held with HomeOffice.

and UKBA has removed the last one in the new application form.

Should they implement the above rule. It will be returned as invalid. Simple.

I would agree with the OP! If you read the guidelines carefully, you are permitted 28 days to re-apply after refusal. They provide you with unique ref. number which makes it easier to locate everything that is held on record about you.

So if the validating team receives the application, they cannot just turn it back and say it's invalid without reading the cover letter! As long as you're within the 28days of refusal there should be no problem. Remember, they're human beings and not robots.

Well they are clearly robots. And i am sure many people who have seen refusals (including me) agree that they are robots. I was just pointing out the rules the robots follow. I just hope that you are right and no one becomes a victim.

[Choc-Ice]

@rsrameshsunil

Just to let you know that those 'ROBOT' have also refused me a LTR recently, so I thought I'd point it out that we're on the same team ! I despise them as much as everybody else who has suffered in their hands..

I went BONKERS and I complain via letters, emails to caseworker,Rob W,Complaint dept. etc and they eventually replied saying they cannot reconsider but I can re-apply with extra doc if I want or just go through the appeal system(Choose the latter of the 2 options). So I am just playing the waiting game now.

[unto1]

I personally agree with rsrameshsunil. Their is difference between the rule and possibility. He is not saying such application will be returned as invalid, but it is possible according to the new form, which deliberately omitted the option: 'wit& home office' .

[babylondoner]

PLEASE ANY THIUGHTS ON THIS?

IS IT OKAY TO REAPPLY CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THE OPTION IS PROVIDED IN THE REFUSAL LETTER?

[rooney0511]

I do not know the rule and regulation but I have seen atleast 4 people reapplying within 28 days of their refusal while their passports and documents held by the UKBA getting approved.

So, if you reapply within 28 days, Yes they will consider it.

[babylondoner]

I do not know the rule and regulation but I have seen atleast 4 people reapplying within 28 days of their refusal while their passports and documents held by the UKBA getting approved.

So, if you reapply within 28 days, Yes they will consider it.

Thanks Rooney.

Do you suggest I use a lawyer or do it myself.

I submitted four properly drafted contracts with services well explained and yet caseworker said the services wasn't explained.

That's the only reason for refusal

[rsrameshsunil]

I do not know the rule and regulation but I have seen atleast 4 people reapplying within 28 days of their refusal while their passports and documents held by the UKBA getting approved.

So, if you reapply within 28 days, Yes they will consider it.

Thanks Rooney.

Do you suggest I use a lawyer or do it myself.

I submitted four properly drafted contracts with services well explained and yet caseworker said the services wasn't explained.

That's the only reason for refusal

Babylondoner, it is important to understand the exact reason for refusal so that you wont repeat it when you re-apply...remember this time you wont have right to appeal...so make sure if you are re-applying everything must be 100% correct....do you have any idea how much detail did you give about your services in the contract document...any idea on how many lines and what kind of services it was?..Just make sure you clearly understand it this time and do not repeat it while making sure that you dont infuse new issues that was correct when you applied first time....Just cautioning you.

[abrantes]

Hello, does any one have a model of a covering letter so I can attach it with my new application, that I'm re-applying with the current documents and the passport is still with UKBA? thanks!

[Khan Friends]

Hello Everyone,
Everyone's opinion is right up to their knowledge. I personally think that if that was the case that HO will automatically decide an application as invalid even within the 28 days of initial refusal of application or AR then they should have removed the 28 days period because there is no point in reapplying within 28 days.
They might have made the changes in application form due to any reason but if the situation is explained well in the cover letter I think they will consider it.

[suvalike]

I do not know the rule and regulation but I have seen atleast 4 people reapplying within 28 days of their refusal while their passports and documents held by the UKBA getting approved.

So, if you reapply within 28 days, Yes they will consider it.

Thanks Rooney.

Do you suggest I use a lawyer or do it myself.

I submitted four properly drafted contracts with services well explained and yet caseworker said the services wasn't explained.

That's the only reason for refusal

HI babylondener

Was it your initial application or Extension ? Please elaborate it.

Thanks