EU Treaty Rights and Dependent Mother

[nahmed]

Hello Folks,

I need some advice regarding eu treaty rights and my dependent mother. Brief details are below:

I am a UK national and am planning to move to Dublin next month and take up an offer of employment. One of the main reason for the move is to facilitate my non eu mother to join me as my dependent. The contract is initially being offered for 6 months after which I believe I will have the option to return back to UK should I wish and also bring my dependent mother with me under surender singh judgement.

My mother is financially dependent on me of which I have proof via our bank statements for the last 2-3 years. My father has passed away. We are 3 brothers of which 2 of us are in UK and the 3rd one is in the US. She is alone in our home country. The UK laws have recently changed making it virtually impossible to bring an elderly dependent into the country. This is a very big reason why I am inclined to accept the offer in Dublin and use the EU route for her. She holds a 10-year multiple UK visit visa however, she cant live here for more than 6 months leaving us all worried in the rest of the 6 months. She has developed orthopaedic diseases as well making her mobility restricted (I have medical evidence) and I am very concerned about leaving her alone. She is due to come back in the UK this week or so and I am trying to have all the paperwork ready to prove her dependency.

I have some query in regards to her initial entry into Ireland if you could answer please. Once I am in Ireland and exercising treaty rights what is the best way to bring her as well into Ireland? From what I understand to date from browsing this forum, we have 3 options:
1) Apply for a Visa at Irish Embassy in home country.
2) Apply for a Visa at Irish Embassy in UK.
3) I come back to UK and take her with me to Ireland along with all supporting documents & without a Pre-arranged visa and request a visa for her at the port of entry.

I need to know if option 3 is a valid option in our case and your opinion on it. If a valid option, which port of entry is advisable to use? I guess the safer options are via Holyhead to Dublin ferry or by Road via NI where we might not come across a border post at all (an issue?)

I don't wanna take the 1st option as she is unwell and I need her to be with us asap while the 2nd option is shaky as Irish embassy in UK might not entertain her case at all being non-resident.

Kindly advise me at your earliest convenience as I need to move quick on it. It will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

[nahmed]

Guys,

Would anyone care to answer my queries please?

Awaiting desperately!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You can apply for the visa to Ireland before you have ever been in Ireland. You just have to make sure that you either travel there with her or you are there first.

Where is she now?

How dependent is she on you?

[nahmed]

Thanks mate,

My mother is currently in Pakistan. She is flying in to UK this week. She holds a 10-year multiple visit visa.

She is financially dependent on me. For this I have proofs from my bank statements and her bank statements for the past 3 years as I have been transferring funds directly between the 2. We don't have any other family members in Pakistan.

Up till now my plan is
1) to go to Ireland 1st and initiate all the procedures for myself 1st (jobs/tenancy/etc).
2) Then come back, may be after a month and take her with me via Holyhead to Dublin ferry. Obviously ensure that I have all the supporting paperwork with me. I could perhaps drive into Ireland via NI but it is hard to come across immigration on the way. Please correct me if I am wrong that it is better for us to encounter immigration on our entry so she gets an entry stamp. As it may be necessary when applying for her residence permit. Is that right or as long as she is in Ireland we could simply apply without trouble?

I would appreciate your advice on the 2 above and also if the dependency paperwork should be enough?

Thanks in advance

You can apply for the visa to Ireland before you have ever been in Ireland. You just have to make sure that you either travel there with her or you are there first.

Where is she now?

How dependent is she on you?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So you have been providing for all her living expenses over the past two years? If so that is pretty convincing.

Note that a dependent parent is a direct family member. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ly-member/

After she has arrived and is settled, then by all means apply for a visa from the Irish. It should be issued quickly and free. They may need to be reminded of their obligations, but they eventually see the light of day.

Then just go together to Ireland. Or you go first and get a flat, and then she joins you. There are cheap Ryanair flights, which is an experience in itself. No need to feel anxious about border crossings!

[nahmed]

Thanks again mate,

I have read on the forum that Irish Embassy in London will not entertain her application as she is on visit visa and will ask to apply from Pakistan instead.

Therefore, I was thinking to request Visa on arrival at the Border and have two queries in this respect.

1) Is it something do able in case of a dependent parent? I have read many success stories for spouses but am unsure about parent.

2) If we drive via NI to Ireland, there are normally no border check posts stopping commuters. In case we don't come across any immigration on our way, will it still be okay for us? Meaning, it wont have any negative impacts on her residence card application in Ireland?

Lastly, re dependency, I am quite confident that our papers should suffice. However, can they create a problem saying that she has been dependent on me for a few years and have continued to live in Pakistan, why cant she continue living in Pakistan now and will come to live with me in Ireland? Or they cant make this an issue as long as I could genuinely prove dependency.

Cheers

So you have been providing for all her living expenses over the past two years? If so that is pretty convincing.

Note that a dependent parent is a direct family member. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ly-member/

After she has arrived and is settled, then by all means apply for a visa from the Irish. It should be issued quickly and free. They may need to be reminded of their obligations, but they eventually see the light of day.

Then just go together to Ireland. Or you go first and get a flat, and then she joins you. There are cheap Ryanair flights, which is an experience in itself. No need to feel anxious about border crossings!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I have read on the forum that Irish Embassy in London will not entertain her application as she is on visit visa and will ask to apply from Pakistan instead.

In general, embassies may prefer to issue visas in the applicant's country of residence. For example, the UK does this for most, though not all types of application. Schengen countries expect the applicant to apply in their country of residence unless there are compelling reasons not to insist on this.

However, the visa you will be applying for would be issued under the terms of directive 2004/38/ec. This specifies that the embassy must extend every facility to the applicant. Insisting that the applicant flies thousands of miles to apply for a visa would not be within the spirit of the directive.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

MRAX is a very interesting case, though it is written in terms of spouses: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

I think it pretty clearly would apply also to children. And I could argue it should also apply to dependent parents.

It basically says two things: border guards must allow entry if you can prove the family relationship, and that the family member can apply for a Residence Card even if they entered illegally.

I would recommend you apply for a visa and force them to issue it in accordance with the law (using Solvit and the threat of complaints to the EC).

[fajr]

You can apply for the visa to Ireland before you have ever been in Ireland. You just have to make sure that you either travel there with her or you are there first.

Where is she now?

Apologies for hijacking but relevant question. Does she (dependent parent/mother) need to be in Ireland to launch EU1 visa application? Assuming her son already in Ireland and working for more than 3 months.

[nahmed]

I would doubt if that's possible. That would be ideal if do able thou.

Would the experts have any idea in this regards?

You can apply for the visa to Ireland before you have ever been in Ireland. You just have to make sure that you either travel there with her or you are there first.

Where is she now?

Apologies for hijacking but relevant question. Does she (dependent parent/mother) need to be in Ireland to launch EU1 visa application? Assuming her son already in Ireland and working for more than 3 months.

[nahmed]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 793#886793

jinkzama_11 updated his thread that the Irish have allowed him to apply in London which is great news and perfectly fits my situation as well.

Thanks to all the experts for helping!

MRAX is a very interesting case, though it is written in terms of spouses: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

I think it pretty clearly would apply also to children. And I could argue it should also apply to dependent parents.

It basically says two things: border guards must allow entry if you can prove the family relationship, and that the family member can apply for a Residence Card even if they entered illegally.

I would recommend you apply for a visa and force them to issue it in accordance with the law (using Solvit and the threat of complaints to the EC).

[nahmed]

Guys!

As I should also be able to apply from within UK for my mum hopefully, I need your expertise & advice to prepare for the dependency paperwork please.

I am quite alright from financial dependency point of view I think. Is proving financial dependency all whats needed? Or will I also need to justify why she has to move to Ireland with me, etc?

Please advise

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am quite alright from financial dependency point of view I think. Is proving financial dependency all whats needed? Or will I also need to justify why she has to move to Ireland with me, etc?

You do not need to justify or give a reason. The process is the same whether you are all going on a weekend holiday or moving there forever.

[nahmed]

[/quote]
You do not need to justify or give a reason. The process is the same whether you are all going on a weekend holiday or moving there forever.[/quote]

That's a perfect way of explaining. Great!
Thank you

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I should say: The process and the requirements are the same whether you are going for a weekend or for more time.

Note that most embassies are not used to the idea of dependent parents. You may have to educate them. I would include a cover letter.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... o-ireland/ is my Irish page.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/2SI226of ... of2006.pdf is the Irish law

STATUTORY INSTRUMENT
S.I. No. 226 of 2006
European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006

“qualifying family member”, in relation to a Union citizen, means—
(a) the Union citizen’s spouse,
(b) a direct descendant of the Union citizen who is—
(i) under the age of 21, or
(ii) a dependant of the Union citizen,
(c) a direct descendant of the spouse of the Union citizen who is—
(i) under the age of 21, or
(ii) a dependant of the spouse of the Union citizen,
(d) a dependent direct relative of the Union citizen in the ascending line, or
(e) a dependent direct relative of the spouse of the Union citizen in the ascending line;

[Premier2013]

Hello folks,

I just would like to know if any of you have applied for non EU dependent mother (under EU treaty law) who is either in India or Pakistan. I am very concerned about my widow mother who is financially and emotionally dependent upon me. The main aim of my life is that she lives with me on permanent basis. I am now living and working in Ireland and exercising EU treaty rights.

It would be great help if someone can share his/her experience.

Thanks!

[arif2014]

hi dear did you have any success in your mother case i have same problem i am british my mother is alone in my home country she is not well her uk visa has refuse for times and appeal was dismissed i so much worried cant even sleep just think about my mom all the time i lose my dad i want my mother to be with me now please help me how i can find a job in ireland please help

[gismanchester]

Hi Arif

You can apply for your mother, you need to show that she is financial dependant or she is living with you before coming to Ireland.
I have applied for my parents and they been granted Eu4FAM for 5 years .


Let me know if you have any questions .

[arif2014]

yes bro i never been to ireland b4 i don't know how to find work and how to start all this proses i am so much worry please can you tell me step by step many thanks

[DingDong]

Guys just checking in what are the options for me...I am in the same boat as you guys are with Dependent mother and I am naturalized Irish.
Can I move to UK and do the exact same thing what you guys are doing since you explicitly moved to Ireland.

Is it easy enough to get a EUFAM3 visa for Dependent mother any advises ??

thanks

[arif2014]

Can any one help me please about moving to Ireland and how can I find job please

[nahmed]

Hi guys,

Hope you are well.

I really need some advice at this moment to point me to the right direction as I had a really tough/bad time given to me by the Irish Embassy London.

Basically, I applied for family permits for my dependent mother (qualified member) and dependent/household member brother (permitted member) to join/accompany me to Ireland where I found a job. The London Embassy gave me real nightmares whilst dealing with the apps with clear breaches of the law from them. It took me from Nov 2013 when I applied to now when they have refused my mother's appliecation on absolute b******* grounds and my brother's appeal is still pending with them to which I expect the same results with the way they are acting.

And now, I need advice from you guys how to take this matter further to the court/Eu commission whatever as I have hit a dead end with them.

My mother is a qualified member so her case was supposed to be expedited and dealt with in 28 days however they simply dragged it and refused her case in March 2014 on complete rubbish grounds. As the case was genuine I appealed against their decision sending all the proofs that their decision is wrong and they simply replied last week with a two line answer basing it on completely new grounds refusing the appeal and didn't even bother putting it on their letterhead. They say that only one appeal is allowed per application and I cannot appeal any further. So now I need to know my rights/options from here please.

As per my rough understanding, as it involves an Irish embassy so I can only take it to an Irish court. Or alternatively, if there is a way for me to take this matter to the ECJ, but I don't know. Or Am I able to take this matter into a UK court?

I am really hurt as they clearly abused their powers to infringe our rights during the last 8 months and am very determined to take this matter forward, although I honestly don't know how to and would really love some guidance about it to point me to the right direction please.

[raholptl]

Hi nahmed,
can you please update what happened with your mother's application after that did u win the case?

Thanks

[azee92]

Hi guys,
I hope it all worked out for you guys.
I myself just recently moved in to Dublin from UK and want to do the same thing bring my dependent parents to come and live with me. I just need to have a good dependency documents if thats correct?

Bringing your wife is pretty straight forward i heard but dependent parents seem to be a bit more complicated.

any help would be very much appreciated.

I am just waiting to start a job then i can apply or I can apply whenever I want?
they'd just need..

-passports
-pictures 2x each of them
-dependency proof (money transfer)
-medical dependency if any
-and since I dont have a birth certificate would that be an issue? but i could tell them they can do DNA test if need be. as I am from afghanistan back in those days of war and what not no one was concerned about birth certificates or anything.

seeing you guys have already done this any help would be great.

thanks

[kai76]

Hi,

My situation is exactly same as like many others here. My mother is a Bangladeshi national but she is visiting me at the moment in the UK. I have applied for a Leave to remain under exceptional circumstances but like many of you mentioned here it is very difficult and was rejected, an appeal was also rejected too. now, her passport is in the hand of UKBA and I am seriously considering to go to Ireland and find a job there and take her with me there temporarily and come back. I have carefully read all the posts here and it appears to me that I should be able to do so as you guys has suggested above. but few thing for me to know are:

1. when I go to ireland do i tell ukba about my mothers departure to ireland and obtain her passport?
2. after getting the resident permit for her in ireland would i be able to get back with my mother legally to UK?
3. Will she need her passport in Ireland if so how do i obtain her passport from ukba? can i tell them to hand over the passport explaining her intentions?
4. her visa to UK has expired now but we have asked the home office to reconsider her application at the moment. Also her biometric details was taken.

Can someone knowledgeable please explain the process and answer my questions above.

Thank you
Kai