Residency and not exercising Treaty Rights

[HRose]

I married a British citizen in 2007 and moved to the UK the same year and shortly gave birth to our daughter. I am from Hungary. As I was pregnant when I moved here I did not work and did not exercise my Treaty Rights. I did not know about this for a long time. I spent 5 years in the UK not knowing about my legal status. It turned out that my marriage does not count at all, and I am a self sufficient person, I took out Comprehensive Sickness insurance almost a year ago, so I am a "qualified person" now. My question is, that is it the only route for me to obtain PR. When I qualify for it I will have spent 10 years in the UK. Is it possible to switch to the immigration route filling in the form SETM, without entry clearance, or are there any shorter solutions.

[Jambo]

There are no shortcuts. Also, immigration route for spouse is now also 5 years, requires you to apply from outside the UK and costs money.

Any specific reason to become British? As Hungarian, you can live in the UK as long as you wish. Why to spend £1000 to become British?

[wiggsy]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ealthcare/

Note:

The documents that we accept as proof you have comprehensive sickness insurance are:
European Health Insurance Card (EHIC);
S1;
S2;
S3; or
an original private health insurance policy document.

I assume you had one of these on entry? Any European would be silly not to have the health costs thing...

therefore, after five years of "Self Sufficent" from your husbands income, you have PR... and I do believe qualify without the further 1 years residence being married to a british citizen.

I also note, that if you hold an EHIC card now, UKBA (unless they can prove otherwise) deem that you have always held a EHIC ...

so I assume you have gained PR now? (and that your insurance payment is a waste of money...)

If you want confirmation, why not just apply for EEA(3)?

im sure the £55 fee would be cheaper then the CSI your paying for now...

[HRose]

There are no shortcuts. Also, immigration route for spouse is now also 5 years, requires you to apply from outside the UK and costs money.

Any specific reason to become British? As Hungarian, you can live in the UK as long as you wish. Why to spend £1000 to become British?

I am the odd one out in the family, my husband and my two daughters are British. I contributed half of the costs towards our house, which is now mortgage free, and I just wanted legal peace of mind for any case, whatever happens, especially when there is a possibility for the UK to leave the EU. Actually, the spouse visa would be cheaper for me than the private medical insurance for 5 years, I went for the private insurance because of its additional benefits. I examined all the relevant laws and could not find shortcuts either, except if my husband went to work to Europe, which is out of question. I am not sure if the period spent without comprehensive sickness insurance counts as legal residence or not, because if it counts as legal residence then after 10 years I would be able to apply on that basis without paying the insurance.

[wiggsy]

As I said above, Did you have an EHIC

The documents that we accept as proof you have comprehensive sickness insurance are:
European Health Insurance Card (EHIC);
S1;
S2;
S3; or
an original private health insurance policy document.

This is a FREE CARD that you could even get now (not a UK one), one from Hungry... and it would count as csi cover...

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

A. Acceptable evidence of CSI
1. From 20th June 2011 applications from EEA nationals applying for documentation confirming their right to reside in the UK as a student or self-sufficient person must present one of the following forms of evidence in order to demonstrate comprehensive sickness insurance. When applying for documentation confirming their permanent right of residence as a student or self-sufficient person they must present of the following forms of evidence or a combination of such evidence covering the duration of their five year period of residence preceding the date at which they claim to have acquired a right of permanent residence, unless they fall within the transitional arrangements outlined in Chapter 6 Annex B of the ECIs:
A comprehensive insurance policy document confirming that the applicant has private medical insurance. A proportionate approach should be taken when considering what is „comprehensive‟. For example, a policy may contain certain exemptions but if the applicant is covered by the policy for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances then this will be sufficient.
For persons temporarily in the UK, a valid European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). The EHIC is the replacement for the E111 form. (See section B below for further information)
In certain circumstances, form S1 (or predecessor form E109 or E121), S2 (or predecessor form E102) or S3 (see below for further information).

I will look for the other guidance (policy notice) i stumbled across, but cant find it after a quick search...

[HRose]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ealthcare/

Note:

The documents that we accept as proof you have comprehensive sickness insurance are:
European Health Insurance Card (EHIC);
S1;
S2;
S3; or
an original private health insurance policy document.

I assume you had one of these on entry? Any European would be silly not to have the health costs thing...

therefore, after five years of "Self Sufficent" from your husbands income, you have PR... and I do believe qualify without the further 1 years residence being married to a british citizen.

I also note, that if you hold an EHIC card now, UKBA (unless they can prove otherwise) deem that you have always held a EHIC ...

so I assume you have gained PR now? (and that your insurance payment is a waste of money...)

If you want confirmation, why not just apply for EEA(3)?

im sure the £55 fee would be cheaper then the CSI your paying for now...

I have applied for EEA3, I asked to waive the insurance requirement because of my marriage, but I was refused, it did not cost me any money, now they introduced fees as well. As I ceased to work in Hungary, I was not eligible for Hungarian EHIC card, I obtained a UK one though without a problem. I know the Hungarian laws and there is no way I can get a Hungarian EHIC card. The Border Agency accepts only non UK ones. So it seems taking out the insurance is the only way, hopefully I start to work in September and then I'll cancel the insurance.

[wiggsy]

I have applied for EEA3, I asked to waive the insurance requirement because of my marriage, but I was refused, it did not cost me any money, now they introduced fees as well. As I ceased to work in Hungary, I was not eligible for Hungarian EHIC card, I obtained a UK one though without a problem. I know the Hungarian laws and there is no way I can get a Hungarian EHIC card. The Border Agency accepts only non UK ones. So it seems taking out the insurance is the only way, hopefully I start to work in September and then I'll cancel the insurance.

Now here is the big question

Did your husband work in hungary?

[Jambo]

If the period doesn't count for 5 years PR under EEA regulations, it can't be counted (as lawful) for 10 years long residence.

I think it's not rare for families to have different nationalities. When they all are EU ones, it really doesn't make any difference. I would not worry about the UK leaving the EU. The free movement directive is wider than just the EU and I don't expect this to change (or affect people already living in the UK).

If you wish, you can switch to the spouse visa. It will require you to spend some time abroad until the application is granted. You don't really need the health insurance (for immigration purposes) unless you wish to apply for BC in future.

[HRose]

I have applied for EEA3, I asked to waive the insurance requirement because of my marriage, but I was refused, it did not cost me any money, now they introduced fees as well. As I ceased to work in Hungary, I was not eligible for Hungarian EHIC card, I obtained a UK one though without a problem. I know the Hungarian laws and there is no way I can get a Hungarian EHIC card. The Border Agency accepts only non UK ones. So it seems taking out the insurance is the only way, hopefully I start to work in September and then I'll cancel the insurance.

Now here is the big question

Did your husband work in hungary?

Unfortunately, he did not, in that case my EEA3 application would have been accepted, but it was refused.

[wiggsy]

not if you didnt include the relevant paperwork to show it - how long did you live in Hungary before moving back? - was he "Self Sufficient"... possibility to expand Singh...

or just wait the further 4 years...

[HRose]

If the period doesn't count for 5 years PR under EEA regulations, it can't be counted (as lawful) for 10 years long residence.

I think it's not rare for families to have different nationalities. When they all are EU ones, it really doesn't make any difference. I would not worry about the UK leaving the EU. The free movement directive is wider than just the EU and I don't expect this to change (or affect people already living in the UK).

If you wish, you can switch to the spouse visa. It will require you to spend some time abroad until the application is granted. You don't really need the health insurance (for immigration purposes) unless you wish to apply for BC in future.

Thank you very much for the professional clarification. I guessed it cannot be counted as lawful, which seems to me completely illogical, but the law is not always consistent.

[HRose]

not if you didnt include the relevant paperwork to show it - how long did you live in Hungary before moving back? - was he "Self Sufficient"... possibility to expand Singh...

or just wait the further 4 years...

He did not live in Hungary, just visited me shortly, and I visited him in the UK as well, it lasted for about 2 years then we married in Hungary and I moved here with him.

[HRose]

A big thank you to Wiggsy for their reply. I needed some reassurance that I interpreted things in the right way. I was surprised how competent people are on this Forum. Especially Jambo and Wiggsy, thank you for your time and kindness.

[wiggsy]

hey, sorry...

if he wasnt settled (and was still living in UK) i doubt that your case would expand singh...

So the options you have are: become a worker and remove the need for CSI (even part time few hrs a week), or keep the CSI up, and then four
years time, you have PR (you do not need to get PR card, it simply confirms your right.

Question though, are you getting child tax credits etc... Im uncertain how this might affect your claim to self sufficiency etc (obviously your husband is entitled to them, but unless a worker, it could affect your status...)

John (one of the moderators) made a very detailed tax credit post on the general immigration forums.

but how it has affect on eea self sufficiency i dont know...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /eun/eun1/

EUN1.4 Can an EEA national claiming benefits still be a qualified person?

An EEA national claiming benefits in the UK would continue to be considered a qualified person if they were:
A worker in receipt of top-up funds or tax credits for low income
An EEA national working in the UK who has become temporarily unemployed (due to incapacity or involuntary unemployment) and is claiming public funds. A worker would still be considered temporarily incapacitated for as long as a doctor confirms that they cannot work but have the intention to do so. We would expect this to be for no longer than six months, although there may be cases where this could be extended (for example if we believe the EEA national has a reasonable prospect of returning to work or finding a job).

In certain circumstances EEA nationals who have ceased employment due to retirement or permanent incapacity would still have a right to reside in the UK.

[HRose]

hey, sorry...

if he wasnt settled (and was still living in UK) i doubt that your case would expand singh...

So the options you have are: become a worker and remove the need for CSI (even part time few hrs a week), or keep the CSI up, and then four
years time, you have PR (you do not need to get PR card, it simply confirms your right.

Question though, are you getting child tax credits etc... Im uncertain how this might affect your claim to self sufficiency etc (obviously your husband is entitled to them, but unless a worker, it could affect your status...)

John (one of the moderators) made a very detailed tax credit post on the general immigration forums.

but how it has affect on eea self sufficiency i dont know...
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /eun/eun1/

EUN1.4 Can an EEA national claiming benefits still be a qualified person?

An EEA national claiming benefits in the UK would continue to be considered a qualified person if they were:
A worker in receipt of top-up funds or tax credits for low income
An EEA national working in the UK who has become temporarily unemployed (due to incapacity or involuntary unemployment) and is claiming public funds. A worker would still be considered temporarily incapacitated for as long as a doctor confirms that they cannot work but have the intention to do so. We would expect this to be for no longer than six months, although there may be cases where this could be extended (for example if we believe the EEA national has a reasonable prospect of returning to work or finding a job).

In certain circumstances EEA nationals who have ceased employment due to retirement or permanent incapacity would still have a right to reside in the UK.

Very useful information. I'll try to find out if it applies to me. We receive child benefit 80£ for the older daughter and 50£ for the younger a month and child tax credit 10£-ish a week. I have never claimed other benefits. We applied as a couple, so I think I am the recipient as well. If it affects my eligibility for PR then the insurance money went down the drain. On the other hand, when they check the funds, they require P60 s and bank statements, from which they are unable to conclude whether we are in receipt of benefits or not. I am not sure how thorough check they perform.
I am in catch 22. I am planning to work part time only, otherwise it is not worth it I have to pick up the girls from school, childminding would cost a fortune. I wonder if I applied for registration certificate would it give me some guarantee that I would be accepted with the same conditions for PR after 4 years? Now I am frantically scared that I would be refused again. I was used to straightforward laws, and I assumed that the official institutions give you the necessary information about what you should do. It is not the case in the UK. I asked the Border Agency a year ago about my situation and they replied that it was my responsibility. A lot of things are at their discretion, and I do not like uncertainty.

[Jambo]

You will be fine. Getting CB and CTC can hardly be considered burden on the state even for self sufficient (and in your case as your husband is British you are entitled to those benefits anyway).

[wiggsy]

I asked the Border Agency a year ago about my situation and they replied that it was my responsibility. A lot of things are at their discretion, and I do not like uncertainty.

Well, even their guidance is full of errors in law...

[HRose]

Reading through old postings, I think I' ve found a shorter solution to my problem. A Greek pensioner wrote that she obtained a letter from Greek Health Authorities that she was insured and it was accepted by the Border Agency. I might be able to negotiate with the Hungarian Health Services, and get a similar letter as technically I was insured in Hungary up until last year when a blue light was put on my insurance ( which means I live in another EU state) this blue light prevents me from taking out the HUngarian EHIC card, but I hope it won't prevent me from getting the letter. Then I could reapply for the EEA3 with new evidence. It seems to me worth paying 55£. I will be able to do that only towards the end of the year, when I visit Hungary and I will update what happened in case someone else is interested in the outcome. I regret that I did not find this forum earlier, there is so much valuable information in here, and all the moderators and gurus are competent and witty.