ACCOMPANY EU Citizen (Partner) Processing Time and Q's

[supattra_kate]

Hi,

Great forums!

I am currently living in Bangkok with my Non-EEA national girlfriend. I am a dual EEA national (British/Swiss) and would like to move to Ireland to exercise my treaty rights based on my British citizenship.

I have have a few questions and would be very grateful to anyone kind enough to answer

1)I was wondering how long it normally takes to receive a decision for the 'ACCOMPANY EU Citizen (PARTNER) visa. Is it supposed to be processed within 2 weeks like an EEA family permit to the UK for example?

2)The online application does not have 'Accompany EEA partner' as an option from the drop down list, but does mention it in guidance notes, should I just select 'Join EEA partner' instead? Am i right in saying that the Short-term visa box should be ticked and that it is 'Single Entry' We don't have an Irish embassy in Thailand and there has been no answer at the Malaysian Embassy i will apply to.

3)We have been residing together in Bangkok for 27 months and have the necessary documents to prove this (Tenancy agreements, Letters from the management at serviced apartments and an Affidavit sworn to and subscribed before a Notary public/lawyer. We also have a certified copy of a joint bank account book and some photos. Should this be sufficient to prove a 'Durable Relationship'? In 27 months of residing together there has been one 5 week gap in which i travelled to the UK alone for a business/family matter, is this likely to cause a problem?

4) When arriving in Ireland on this visa do immigration stamp my partners passport with a temporary stamp 4 or is this something that we apply for later?

Apologies for such a long post

Many Thanks!

[meleryan]

with regards to the process time, see below email I received today


I am directed by the Minister for Justice and Equality to refer to your correspondence of 11/07/2013.

The eight week timeframe acts as a guideline only. Visa applications are considered in as speedy a manner as possible. Timeframes for decision can be dependent on a number of factors; two of those being, the number of applications received and the resources available to process them.

[supattra_kate]

Hi meleryan,

Is this for an accompany/join EU spouse/partner visa? If you don't me asking.

I was under the impression that such visas have to be processed (under EU law) much faster than 8 weeks.

Many Thanks

[jeupsy]

1) They are supposed to do it within a month. Some embassies are very quick but other can cause trouble and make it last 2 or 3 months (which is not very legal but waiting is often easier than forcing them to comply - I am talking out of personal experience)
2) I think you are correct. Also, for your information when I was in a similar situation, my solicitor told me that as for unmarried partners EU laws are "weaker" and the decision is essentially at the discretion of the immigration authorities, an actual Join-partner application would have more chances of being successful than an accompany partner one (at it would show already existing tights to Ireland).
3) Your documentation sounds pretty strong. I wouldn't worry at all about your 5 weeks away (my partner go her visa granted even though we only had about 6 residing together and that wasn't an issue as we had other pretty song arguments and a lot of existing tights to Ireland which is where our relationship started). If you want to make your application even stronger here are a few suggestions: letter from friends and family who can confirm the relationship, proofs of holidays together or visiting each others families, proof of regular contacts by phone/email/Skype especially while you were in the UK, any evidence you can provide of cards and presents given to each other. None of these are required by I would strongly recommend to at least include the letters.
4) They will probably stamp it with something saying she is not allowed to study or work (which would clearly be illegal if you were married though they sometimes do it, but is a grey area of the law for unmarried couples). You will then have to submit this application: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20E ... %20EU1.pdf
As soon as they acknowledge reception of the complete application form and supporting documents, she will be issued with a temporary Stamp 4 for 6 months (my advice is for you to review the required supporting documents in advance and have a clear idea of how to obtain them before you come to Ireland as some of them might take you some time to get if you are not aware of what you have to do).

[supattra_kate]

Many thanks for the reply jeupsy, very helpful advice

I am wondering what happens when an application is processed after the travel dates you have put down on the application form (the 3 month period)

e.g. If I put down on the application form that we intended to travel to Ireland in 6 weeks time but the visa application was processed at say 9 weeks. Would it still be processed/issued?

We would like to travel as soon as possible so difficult to know what dates to put down.

Any further help would be much appreciated.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

An application is to be processed as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure. While this may not be as helpful as a timeline, it ought to give you some confidence.

If you've applied, complain. If you've still to apply, get on with it.

[supattra_kate]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that they should be processed on an accelerated basis.

I am just wondering what happens when the application is processed 'after' the intended travel date on the application.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Then, I imagine, it would still be processed and would be valid from the date the decision was made.

[supattra_kate]

Many thanks

I was hoping that would be the case, I was only a little worried due to some of the experiences regarding long processing times I have read about here.

Maybe I will enclose a note with the application to say that I can travel after the dates on the form if necessary.

Kind regards

[supattra_kate]

Hello again,

I am about to submit the online application and post the supporting documents.

I have a quick question regarding accommodation for the online application.

Is it ok to use a Hotel address? We will find a place to rent after arriving.

Does the hotel need to be booked? The website states not to book flights before knowing the outcome of the application, would this be the same for the initial Hotel booking?

Many Thanks!

[supattra_kate]

Hi There,

I have now submitted the online application and contacted our local consulate to arrange dropping off the supporting documents.

They are saying that we have to pay for the application because we are unmarried partners, and stated that it is only free of charge for married partners. Is this really correct?

I quoted Article 5.1 and 5.2 from Directive 2004/38/EC (Right of Entry) but this mentions 'family members' the consulate said that unmarried partners are not included.

Is there anything else I can quote? They are quite adamant that they are correct.

Many Thanks.

[masterboy123]

Yes, as long as I know it's true that spouse (married) of EU citizen are not charged of visa fees. They have not mentioned it that umarried partners will be given free visa. But I think overall it's easier to get visa in your case, as compared to both non-eu nationals partners.

[dalebutt]

Yes, as long as I know it's true that spouse (married) of EU citizen are not charged of visa fees. They have not mentioned it that umarried partners will be given free visa. But I think overall it's easier to get visa in your case, as compared to both non-eu nationals partners.

Applications for unmarried partners are also free, no difference in this regard as with married couples. The embassy staffs are very clearly wrong I would not pay a penny for processing.

[supattra_kate]

Hi Dalebutt,

Many thanks, this is what I thought. The problem is they are very adamant, and if I can't prove this to them, and don't pay, I can't continue the application.

Even when i quote Article 2 (2) (Definitions) from the EU Directive:

2) "Family member" means:

(a) the spouse;

(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;

(c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);

(d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);

The problem is it never refers to unmarried partners that are not in a registered partnership. It really should not be the applicants to prove these things

Even the INIS website does mention anything about fees under the Accompany EU Partner section (If t does I can't find it)

This was the reply that I received from the consulate after they checked:

'Dear XXXXXX

Below is the reply from our embassy:

“We only waive the visa fees for spouses, children, or those in a registered civil partnership with EU citizens. Those in unofficial relationships are required to pay visa fees, even if they can document their relationships. “

If you have civil partnership certificate or marriage certificate, the fee will be waived. If not, you have to pay visa fee.'


Many thanks

[dalebutt]

Absolutely very wrong, do not pay! if you do it will become the norm and they will think it is the right thing to do. Contact the visa section in Dublin, they usually reply and the staffs there generally have a good understanding of the law.

[supattra_kate]

Thanks Dalebut,

I e-mailed the EUTR department at the INIS and they replied within 5 minutes. Their e-mail:

Dear XXXXXX,

There is no fee for EU Treaty Rights applications regardless of the type of
relationship.

Best regards,

XXXXXXX
EU Treaty Rights Section
Irish Naturalisation & Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay
Dublin 2

But a few minutes later I received another e-mail:

Dear XXXXX,

I can confirm that there is no fee for EU Treaty Rights applications
however, there may be a fee for visas please forward your query to
visamail@justice.ie

Best regards,

XXXXXX
EU Treaty Rights Section
Irish Naturalisation & Immigration Service
13-14 Burgh Quay
Dublin 2

I have now E-mailed the visa department, and also quoted this from Directive 2004/38/EC:

'Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.’

Many Thanks!

[dalebutt]

Good that you are taking this up with them, the visamail guyz are well equipped, the first reply was just the correct answer, the second staff who replied has probably gone bonkers.

Expect the visamail to reply promptly too, they could well be an epitome to their British counterpart on customer service relations. Hope you have it sorted soonish and good luck with the app.

[masterboy123]

Great news that they replied you immediately and you are out of the trouble now. Congrats

[jeupsy]

The thing is that de-facto partners are not included in the definition of family members at the beginning of the directive. They are mentioned separately and instead of stating that they have an automatic right of entry (as family members do), the directive says that the host country is obliged to review their situation according to local regulations and grant entry if they are in a long term relationship (which is a bit vague). So whenever the directive says that something applies to non-EU family members of an EU citizen (which is the case of the wording for free of charge visas), it doesn't clearly include unmarried partners.

Lets see what the visa email says, but I think they can get away with charging a visa fee in this case if they want to.

[supattra_kate]

Thanks for the replies everyone

Thanks Jeupsy - The local consulate forwarded the E-mail to the Embassy that will process the application, so I am awaiting their response.

A couple of questions if you guys don't mind:

The consulate, who will forward the application to an overseas Embassy, say I only need to provide a copy of the biometric page of both my british and swiss passport (dual eea-national, but using British passport to enter Ireland) Is this correct?

I have been cohabiting with my partner here in Bangkok for a continuous period of 28 months, we have joint bank accounts, joint tenancy agreements and joint serviced apartment contracts and an Affidavit. Do they not need to see the passports for entry and exit stamps? From other threads I have read some people seem to suggest the biometric pages will suffice and others say they need the actual passport. I just want to be sure as the consulate does not process the app.

When we are in Ireland and I am exercising my EUTR we will obviously apply for a residence card using Form EU1. Do we then need to provide all of the documents proving that we have been in a durable relationship for more than 2 years again? Or is the fact that we had to do it to actually get the visa to enter Ireland enough? I only ask because I will need to prepare many certified copies of documents in advance.

Apologies for all the questions and the long post.

Many Thanks!

[jeupsy]

I don't see why they want to see a opt of you Swiss passport ...

I *think* they might want to see your girlfriend's original passport though.

And yes the entry stamps at the same dates and/or visas are a good think to show. I would just provide copies of them and include a letter to explain what it is though, they should be fine with this.

Yes it is a bit stupid but you will have to provide everything again for the residence card application. I am not sure it is standard process, but when I was in this situation my solicitor sent a letter to the visa section in Dublin (the visa application was made abroad but processed in Dublin), and they returned all the document to my address in Ireland. So I didn't have to gather everything again - I just submitted the same documents except for those who needed some update.

[dalebutt]

Yes, it's clear that de-factor relationships do not have automatic rights as defined in the directive, that is a different case, the question is should an application made pursuant to the directive be processed free of charge? The law says yes

[jeupsy]

The law says yes

Can you quote which exact law you are referring to?

Here is what I see in the directive.

Definition of a family member (section 2.2):

For the purposes of this Directive:
[...]
2) "Family member" means:
(a) the spouse;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;
(c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);
(d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);

Separate section regarding the persons who don't fall into the definition of family members (section 3.2 - no mention of getting a visa free of charge)

2. Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate entry and residence for the following persons:
[...]
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.

Only section where I see a mention of free of charge visas (section 5.2 - note that it only says "family member", and refer to the definition I quoted above)

2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

I agree the spirit of the directive is that it should be free for everyone; but if I look at it I don't see it written down clearly anywhere for de-facto partners ... so I think if a member State wants to be uncooperative, it can (and will) twist the directive when it implements it into its local laws so that visas are not free for everyone.

Granted, I am no lawyer and haven't seen the Irish implementation - but this is my opinion when I look at it (and when I was in the same situation with the backup of a solicitor, they also didn't try to fight this and told me to pay - it might be laziness or incompetence, or it might be that they were right in saying there was no point).

[dalebutt]

The directive should be broadly interpreted. Any application that is submitted, in which the applicant wishes to rely on the directive; it is to be processed free of charge, we can keep arguing about this until we are blue in the face, it would not change the fact, let's wait for reconfirmation from the visamail.

Nobody was supposed to be charged under the directive applications , if the applicant falls in one of the category of family members, then the embassy should process the visa free of charge.

Member state cannot be uncooperative, the directive did not force any member state to accept de-facto applications, unless de-facto relationships are already recognized by the member state concerned, Ireland for one does recognize this. Germany and some other member states do not recognize this type of relationship and will treat the application as invalid if it was submitted at a German mission.

[supattra_kate]

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the help!

I am still awaiting a response from the visa team. I went to the consulate today to submit all supporting documents and just paid a very small communication fee. They said that the Embassy is still awaiting a response from the INIS and that if there is a charge I can pay when my partner collects her passport. I did get a receipt that said 'visa fee Gratis for EU partner' Not really sure how they could charge us in the future after writing that on the receipt .

On the application I put the address of a Hotel that my partner and I will stay at for a few days on arrival. Do I need to actually book this Hotel even though we don't yet know the outcome of the application? Do they check?

Many Thanks!