Applying on grounds of Automatic permanent residence

[gcameo]

I have been married since May 2007 to EEA national. I am a non EEA family member. I received my 5 years residence card in Sept 2009 after a long and painful and lengthy process with HO.

Now I want to apply for naturalisation since we have been married for almost 6.5 years but when I called the HO this morning, the guy told me that I have to wait for my current Residence card to expire in Sept 2014, then apply for ILR for 1 year before I can apply for naturalisation, so effectively, i can get naturalisation only after sept 2015.

Is this correct and also what is the difference between ILR and permanent residence because I thought that is what I already had.

Also the HO just gave my newly born son a British passport in June 2013 so why will i be treated differently since we are both family members.

Can I use the same form i used to apply for my son to apply for the british passport instead of form AN - which is what I am filling now

Any help welcomed
thanks

[Jambo]

Is this correct

No and it's not the first time the HO is giving out misleading information over the phone.

Can I use the same form i used to apply for my son to apply for the british passport instead of form AN - which is what I am filling now

No. Your newly UK born child was born after you obtained PR so he was British from birth. You are not British yet and need to apply to become one.


See Q1, Q5 & Q6 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

[gcameo]

Is this correct

No and it's not the first time the HO is giving out misleading information over the phone.

Can I use the same form i used to apply for my son to apply for the british passport instead of form AN - which is what I am filling now

No. Your newly UK born child was born after you obtained PR so he was British from birth. You are not British yet and need to apply to become one.


See Q1, Q5 & Q6 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

Also, I just called Camden council to use their Nationality Checking Service and they said, they cannot do the service to me if I don't have ILR already.

Can i just ignore them and send my Application via form AN directly to HO or my chances of being successfull is small? i don't want to waste £875 if i don't have to.

Thanks

[fatimahh]

In my opinion the best way for you to avoid wasting your money will be to apply for EEA4 in order to confirm your right and then apply for the BC. EEA4 is only 55£, waste of time i know but better than taking a risk!

[Choi Saab]

Can you tell a bit more about your EU partner ? You don't have to have a PR to apply if your partner has got British nationality

[gcameo]

Can you tell a bit more about your EU partner ? You don't have to have a PR to apply if your partner has got British nationality

She is an EEA national. registered for WRS in september 2007. Worked till november 2007. Maternity leave till sept 2009. Working in sainsbury's since sept 2009 till present. currently on maternity leave but still employee of sainsbury's. I have been in full time employment since 2006. now working as software engineer.

hope this helps

[Choi Saab]

Can you tell a bit more about your EU partner ? You don't have to have a PR to apply if your partner has got British nationality

She is an EEA national. registered for WRS in september 2007. Worked till november 2007. Maternity leave till sept 2009. Working in sainsbury's since sept 2009 till present. currently on maternity leave but still employee of sainsbury's. I have been in full time employment since 2006. now working as software engineer.

hope this helps

If she has documentary evidence to prove her continuity of exercising treaty rights from Sep'07 til Sep'12 then she automatically got the PR status since Sep'12 which now marks her one year since PR status. Now she can apply for British citizenship and once she is British, you can apply as a spouse of a British national which requires you to be resident for 3 years. (It can be any status doesn't have to be PR/ILR)

This is what I think. I can be wrong just double check with Gurus

[gcameo]

Can you tell a bit more about your EU partner ? You don't have to have a PR to apply if your partner has got British nationality

She is an EEA national. registered for WRS in september 2007. Worked till november 2007. Maternity leave till sept 2009. Working in sainsbury's since sept 2009 till present. currently on maternity leave but still employee of sainsbury's. I have been in full time employment since 2006. now working as software engineer.

hope this helps

If she has documentary evidence to prove her continuity of exercising treaty rights from Sep'07 til Sep'12 then she automatically got the PR status since Sep'12 which now marks her one year since PR status. Now she can apply for British citizenship and once she is British, you can apply as a spouse of a British national which requires you to be resident for 3 years. (It can be any status doesn't have to be PR/ILR)

This is what I think. I can be wrong just double check with Gurus

I think that is long... I actually called HO again and this time made it clear my wife has automatic permanent residence.. and they said i can apply. i have to prove she has been exercising treaty rights for 6 years... which i think its the right answer.

Also this link seems to be very informative
http://www.airecentre.org/data/files/EE ... r_2013.pdf

Especially how it explains maternity and why people talk about 6 years not 5

regards

[IyaCiara]

I think that you should proceed cautiously with this matter because, as previously pointed out, applying for proof of permanent residence via the EEA4 form is a lot more cost effective than applying for naturalisation and then being refused on a technicality.

The information provided in the Aire Centre link above is very useful and informative. However, Home Office tend not to take such a liberal and practical approach to applying the European immigration rules.

I have been a permanent resident since 2003 so in theory my husband (non EEA national) should have acquired residence automatically when he married me - in practice we still had to apply for a residence card through EEA2.

After 5 years of marriage in 2012 we applied for confirmation of his permanent residence status through form EEA4 and relied on the fact that I was already a permanent resident instead of proving that I had exercised treaty rights - the result of this is that my husband waited 13 months for his permanent residence and was refused twice before it was finally issued - after I had submitted proof of exercising treaty rights in the preceding five years.

I guess that what I'm really trying to say here is that if you have £800+ available then go ahead and apply for naturalisation directly but don't be surprised if you are refused. On the other hand, if money is tight, then spend £55 on applying for confirmation of your right to PR first.

[gcameo]

I think that you should proceed cautiously with this matter because, as previously pointed out, applying for proof of permanent residence via the EEA4 form is a lot more cost effective than applying for naturalisation and then being refused on a technicality.

The information provided in the Aire Centre link above is very useful and informative. However, Home Office tend not to take such a liberal and practical approach to applying the European immigration rules.

I have been a permanent resident since 2003 so in theory my husband (non EEA national) should have acquired residence automatically when he married me - in practice we still had to apply for a residence card through EEA2.

After 5 years of marriage in 2012 we applied for confirmation of his permanent residence status through form EEA4 and relied on the fact that I was already a permanent resident instead of proving that I had exercised treaty rights - the result of this is that my husband waited 13 months for his permanent residence and was refused twice before it was finally issued - after I had submitted proof of exercising treaty rights in the preceding five years.

I guess that what I'm really trying to say here is that if you have £800+ available then go ahead and apply for naturalization directly but don't be surprised if you are refused. On the other hand, if money is tight, then spend £55 on applying for confirmation of your right to PR first.

Thank you for sharing your experience and the advice. In the end we have also decided we will avoid this "being too smart" approach and go with what everybody does even if it takes longer. Risking £875 only to be refused on some technical rubbish is not worth it.

So we have decided that my wife will first get the Permanent Residence stamp in her Passport by proving that she has exercised Treaty rights for 6 years via EEA3. That should make my application for the Permanent Residence Stamp easier too via EEA4. Once we both have these in our current passports, we will then apply for naturalization. I believe this will make things easier and reduce the chances of the home office screwing me up... My EEA2 application took a full year before the Residence Card was given so not ready for any more risks...

[wiggsy]

your wife isnt the one that requires the PR stamp. it is yourself as the person applying for British Citizenship. (theres no real benefit for her to become british, and infact there are *disadvantages* for an EU citizen to become british).

also, it is excersising treaty rights for FIVE years, not SIX. you have to be resident for the one year after PR to get BC (unless married to a british citizen)

[isabelilla]

Hi guys, I am a non EEA national female whose EEA spouse's naturalisation as a British Citizen was granted 1 week ago. He is Polish.

I have been in the country for 6 years and married for 6 years too and we have 2 children born here. Problem is, my Residence Card which was valid for 5 years expired a month ago and I did not bother to apply for Permanent Residence under European Law as I know it's time consuming and since they say EEA nationals and their non EEA spouses get automatically Permanent Residence after residing n exercising Treaty of Rights continuously for 5 years so I technically became a Permanent Resident in 2012 already as I arrived in UK in 2007 as a spouse of an EEA national.

My EEA spouse got his Permanent Residence Card about 2 years ago.

The thing is I just applied for a new job and when they had a look at the Residence Card sticker on my passport, they rejected me saying that my right to work in the UK expired a month ago. I tried to explain that the sticker is just a confirmation of my right of residence and that under European Law I already became a Permanent Resident in 2012, etc etc but they would not listen and was told I had to renew my visa if I was to be given the job.

After reading some posts on this forum I think I am entitled to apply for Naturalisation as a British Citizen but which route do I go for?
I have been in UK for 6 years exactly, 5 years with Residence Card plus 1 more year holding PR without the PR card itself.

Do I need to apply for PR using the form EEA4? and after a year apply for BC? but my spouse is now British as well as Polish.

Or do I apply for Naturalisation as BC as the spouse of a Naturalised British citizen? but the requirement for spouses of British Citizens is that they should have been with the British spouse for 3 years before applying for naturalisation as BC but technically I have been the spouse of a British Citizen for a week now but I have been the spouse of an EEA national for 6 years now so will this time count as well or not?

Sorry If I am asking a stupid question but I am really confused about this. The other issue is that the Residence Card sticker on my passport expired a month ago so will this affect me in any way if I decide to apply for naturalisation either as the spouse of a BC or EEA national? should I get a solicitor to be on the safe side?

I cannot find anywhere information regarding what happens to non EEA nationals married to EEA nationals that have become British Citizens. So what law do I follow now? European Law or British Law? I am so confused.

please reply and help me as this problem is doing my head in.

[isabelilla]

I just called the HO and spoke to an adviser regarding my situation which is explained in my previous post above.

He first told me that because my Residence Card expired a month ago, I should apply asap for Permanent Residence, wait for a year and then apply for Naturalisation as a BC.

But I told him that under EU law, I acquired automatically PR ((in Sept 2012) after 5 years in the Uk of exercising Treaty of Rights, etc etc I also told him that my EEA spouse got his Permanent Residence card about 2 years ago and that he became a naturalised British Citizen last week.

So he put me on hold while he made enquiries and then he confirmed that I actually acquired Permanent Residence Status in Sept 2012 and that I can now apply for naturalisation as a British Citizen as exactly 6 years have elapsed.
But he said that I cannot apply for naturalisation as BC as the "spouse of a British Citizen" even though my spouse is now British but still as "the spouse of an EEA national" and this is because I entered the UK with a Family permit under European Law and not under British Law.

Does this make sense? is the adviser right? I have my doubts about it. Can anyone plz help me because this is stressing me so much. He also mentioned that the fact that My Residence Card expired last month will not affect me at all when I apply for Naturalisation as BC and that I should enclose a cover letter explaining my circumstances together with my AN application.

Plz reply and take me out of my misery.

[wiggsy]

either way, you qualify... so there is no difference really. as your spouse has BC, it is clear he was qualified, so in your case, aquiring confirmation would not really be necessary. just ensure you confirm your dates

your expired RC does not affect your right of residence.

but definately include ALL information in a covering letter

[Jambo]

You are basically playing with two cards:

1. Spouse of EEA national - providing your husband Polish passport + PR card. You will need to provide evidence you have lived in the UK for 5 years.

Once you have proved you have obtained PR using (1), you pull out the second card:

2. Spouse of a British national - providing your husband naturalisation certificate / British passport allowing you to apply for naturalisation once you have PR, and 3 years of residence.

It doesn't matter that your husband is British only for one week. The requirements are:
1) Spouse British
2) 3 years of residence

Not 3 years of marriage / British spouse.

I suggest you explain your (slightly unusual) case in a cover letter or on page 13 of the application just to make sure the caseworker understands that.

[isabelilla]

Jambo thanx 4 ur answer. I arrived in uk on 15th Sept 2007 so I became a Permanent Residence on 15th Sept 2012. On 15th Sept 2013 I have been here 6 years so I have met the 6 year residence requirement to apply for BC under EU law.

1. "Spouse of EEA national - providing your husband Polish passport + PR card. You will need to provide evidence you have lived in the UK for 5 years"
So in the AN form I should provide my husband's Polish passport and PR card and supporting documents confirming my lawful stay in UK for 6 years such as bank statements, HM revenue tax calculations for every year, etc ?

2. "Spouse of a British national - providing your husband naturalisation certificate / British passport allowing you to apply for naturalisation once you have PR, and 3 years of residence"
So in the AN form do I have to also enclose my husband's British Passport n naturalisation certificate?

So do I apply as the spouse of an EEA national or British Citizen? I am asking this because:
on page 6, Q 1.43 of the AN form it says "Partner's nationality" so do I write British or Polish or both?
also on page 7, Q 2.2 "details of all absences from UK during the last 5 yrs, if married to a BC the last 3 years. So do I go for the 5 or 3 yrs?
also on page 8, Q 2.4 "EEA nationals exercising EC Treaty rights" do I have to fill in all that section?

By the way, I passed the life in Uk test last week.
Plz reply and thnx v much.


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[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So he put me on hold while he made enquiries and then he confirmed that I actually acquired Permanent Residence Status in Sept 2012 and that I can now apply for naturalisation as a British Citizen as exactly 6 years have elapsed.
But he said that I cannot apply for naturalisation as BC as the "spouse of a British Citizen" even though my spouse is now British but still as "the spouse of an EEA national" and this is because I entered the UK with a Family permit under European Law and not under British Law.

Does this make sense? is the adviser right? I have my doubts about it. Can anyone plz help me because this is stressing me so much. He also mentioned that the fact that My Residence Card expired last month will not affect me at all when I apply for Naturalisation as BC and that I should enclose a cover letter explaining my circumstances together with my AN application..

I am pretty sure the highlighted quote is NOT right. Residence requirement for the spouse of the British citizen is not specific about how you entered or were initially resident in the UK.

[isabelilla]

Guru
Thnx 4 ur answer so the HO adviser was probably wrong, wasn't he? I forgot to mention in my other post that he also said I should put in Q. 1.43, page 6 about partner's nationality as British and not Polish but applied as a spouse of EEA national, that is why it does not make sense to me.
So do I apply as spouse of British or spouse of EEA national? Please advice me. I know my case is very complicated. Thanks in advance.

[Jambo]

Jambo thanx 4 ur answer. I arrived in uk on 15th Sept 2007 so I became a Permanent Residence on 15th Sept 2012. On 15th Sept 2013 I have been here 6 years so I have met the 6 year residence requirement to apply for BC under EU law.

Correct (assuming your husband exercising treaty rights which he must have as he gained PR and BC).

1. "Spouse of EEA national - providing your husband Polish passport + PR card. You will need to provide evidence you have lived in the UK for 5 years"
So in the AN form I should provide my husband's Polish passport and PR card and supporting documents confirming my lawful stay in UK for 6 years such as bank statements, HM revenue tax calculations for every year, etc ?

Correct. Not 6 years but 5 years. You first need to show you have PR (as PR is a requirement for BC).

2. "Spouse of a British national - providing your husband naturalisation certificate / British passport allowing you to apply for naturalisation once you have PR, and 3 years of residence"
So in the AN form do I have to also enclose my husband's British Passport n naturalisation certificate?

Either British passport or naturalisation certificate and your marriage certificate to show you are married to British citizen.

So do I apply as the spouse of an EEA national or British Citizen? I am asking this because:
on page 6, Q 1.43 of the AN form it says "Partner's nationality" so do I write British or Polish or both?

Both - write "British & Polish".

also on page 7, Q 2.2 "details of all absences from UK during the last 5 yrs, if married to a BC the last 3 years. So do I go for the 5 or 3 yrs?

5 years.

also on page 8, Q 2.4 "EEA nationals exercising EC Treaty rights" do I have to fill in all that section?

You can skip this section and just write - Husband has PR.

[Jambo]

Guru
Thnx 4 ur answer so the HO adviser was probably wrong, wasn't he? I forgot to mention in my other post that he also said I should put in Q. 1.43, page 6 about partner's nationality as British and not Polish but applied as a spouse of EEA national, that is why it does not make sense to me.
So do I apply as spouse of British or spouse of EEA national? Please advice me. I know my case is very complicated. Thanks in advance.

The case is not complicated. Just need to be done in two stages. As long as you example the basis of your application on page 13, I don't see any reason for the caseworker not understanding your case.

[isabelilla]

Jambo
you are really a guru thanks so much for such great answers. I cannot really trust these so called "HO advisers". The other thing is, I shall be applying for naturalisation soon and do what you told me but in the meantime I want to apply for a job and as I said in my other post, no one wants to employ me because my Residence Card expired a month ago and some people do not even know abt EU law and do not understand that I automatically became a Permanent Residence in 2012 after 5 yrs in UK etc, etc so how do I convince them to employ me while my applic 4 naturalisation as BC is being processed?
Please advise me.
Thnx

[Jambo]

Employers are not experts in immigration and with the high fines on illegal workers, it's understandable they not willing to take a risk. You could try to get a letter from an immigration lawyer explaining your status or ask the employer to contact one to verify your status. Otherwise, you might just need to wait until you are naturalised.

[isabelilla]

Jambo
A big thank you for taking your time to help others like me.