Only one Question

[shahionline]

I am applying for Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) in November, £50,000 in my own bank account. I have MBA degree having PSW and currently working as a Security Officer.

I want to register a Security Company and show my Job Position as Security Manager (Level 4).

My only question is that I only need to register my new company with Companies House or also need to register with SIA?

I search alot on google but did not find the satisfied answer that for establishing new security company needs SIA approval or not.

Kindly reply your valuable comments.
Thank you

[Lucapooka]

What type of securigy services will you be providing?

[shahionline]

What type of securigy services will you be providing?

Static Security and Construction Security

[Lucapooka]

It's not a qualifying busines for PSW switching at the 50K threshold. Regardless of your role or title in the company, the nature of the business (the service being provided) must be at level 4 or above, and providing security guards does not fall into that category. You'll be fine with that business plan if you have 200K.

Other than the work necessary to administer the business, your main business activity must be working skilled to National Qualifications Framework 4 or above. We will not take into account the tasks involved with the running of the business for this assessment.
For example
• If the business is software sales and your main activity is developing software, you may qualify for points;
• If the business is a taxi firm, the main occupation is driving a taxi and you will not score points even though you manage the business. Your main activity is providing a taxi service which is not skilled to graduate level. Guidance on what is work skilled to National Qualification Framework 4 or above, as stated in the Codes of Practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the Home Office is found on our website at: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... orkers.pdf and in Appendix J of the Immigration Rules.

Good job you asked on this forum as it has just saved you from wasting a lot of time and money on something that is not suitable for the purpose you are intending.

[shahionline]

It's not a qualifying busines for PSW switching at the 50K threshold. Regardless of your role or title in the company, the nature of the business (the service being provided) must be at level 4 or above, and providing security guards does not fall into that category. You'll be fine with that business plan if you have 200K.

Other than the work necessary to administer the business, your main business activity must be working skilled to National Qualifications Framework 4 or above. We will not take into account the tasks involved with the running of the business for this assessment.
For example
• If the business is software sales and your main activity is developing software, you may qualify for points;
• If the business is a taxi firm, the main occupation is driving a taxi and you will not score points even though you manage the business. Your main activity is providing a taxi service which is not skilled to graduate level. Guidance on what is work skilled to National Qualification Framework 4 or above, as stated in the Codes of Practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the Home Office is found on our website at: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... orkers.pdf and in Appendix J of the Immigration Rules.

thank you for reply but my Job position will be Security Manager for my own company, still not qualify?

[Lucapooka]

No. You can call yourself CEO if you like but security guards are not a level 4 occupation.

[shahionline]

No. You can call yourself CEO if you like but security guards are not a level 4 occupation.

Once again thank you for your time. Could you please write down few businesses and Job Title for MBA holder with £50,000. thank you in advance for your coming reply.

[RizKCB]

@Shahionline
Security Manager is OK for Enterp. Visa under provision (d) as far as your Services really present the role of Security Manager.

For example, Services related to Security Manager Role could be:

To train, develop, manage and implement a comprehensive and efficient combined Security programme in coordination with key stakeholders.

To promote and support a security awareness culture within the organisation and to ensure the delivery of professional Security Services at all times.

To ensure the implementation of a robust risk assessment and management process.

To oversee and manage all aspects of crisis management, emergency planning and business continuity.

To provide proactive professional security advice to support the business, especially where an incident could potentially disrupt the business.

To detect and deter any illegal or unusual activity, which could have the potential to affect the interests or the reputation of the organisation.

To maintain regular contact with the relevant management teams, security peers in other organisations and with the civil / law enforcement authorities, as appropriate.


As you are supposed to provide Static and Construction security guarding but the logic behind to provide security guards could be from the points above. Basically you will contract for the services above with your client and where possible you will provide trained security guards or CCTV placements or anything in Security line to accomplish your company's aims. Also to run a company in relation to SIA, you require Non-Front Line SIA License.

[shahionline]

@Shahionline
Security Manager is OK for Enterp. Visa under provision (d) as far as your Services really present the role of Security Manager.

For example, Services related to Security Manager Role could be:

To train, develop, manage and implement a comprehensive and efficient combined Security programme in coordination with key stakeholders.

To promote and support a security awareness culture within the organisation and to ensure the delivery of professional Security Services at all times.

To ensure the implementation of a robust risk assessment and management process.

To oversee and manage all aspects of crisis management, emergency planning and business continuity.

To provide proactive professional security advice to support the business, especially where an incident could potentially disrupt the business.

To detect and deter any illegal or unusual activity, which could have the potential to affect the interests or the reputation of the organisation.

To maintain regular contact with the relevant management teams, security peers in other organisations and with the civil / law enforcement authorities, as appropriate.


As you are supposed to provide Static and Construction security guarding but the logic behind to provide security guards could be from the points above. Basically you will contract for the services above with your client and where possible you will provide trained security guards or CCTV placements or anything in Security line to accomplish your company's aims. Also to run a company in relation to SIA, you require Non-Front Line SIA License.

thank you so much for valuable and detailed Information. please check my PM.

[Lucapooka]

@Shahionline
Security Manager is OK for Enterp. Visa under provision (d) as far as your Services really present the role of Security Manager.

For example, Services related to Security Manager Role could be:

To train, develop, manage and implement a comprehensive and efficient combined Security programme in coordination with key stakeholders.

To promote and support a security awareness culture within the organisation and to ensure the delivery of professional Security Services at all times.

To ensure the implementation of a robust risk assessment and management process.

To oversee and manage all aspects of crisis management, emergency planning and business continuity.

To provide proactive professional security advice to support the business, especially where an incident could potentially disrupt the business.

To detect and deter any illegal or unusual activity, which could have the potential to affect the interests or the reputation of the organisation.

To maintain regular contact with the relevant management teams, security peers in other organisations and with the civil / law enforcement authorities, as appropriate.


As you are supposed to provide Static and Construction security guarding but the logic behind to provide security guards could be from the points above. Basically you will contract for the services above with your client and where possible you will provide trained security guards or CCTV placements or anything in Security line to accomplish your company's aims. Also to run a company in relation to SIA, you require Non-Front Line SIA License.

Absolute nonsense, and misleading to the person asking the question! The UKBA will look at the core service being provided (security guards) which is at the lowest level of occupational codes. What you are suggesting about the role of the business manger could equally apply to the manager of a minicab firm, but it's already been indicated why a minicab firm does not qualify.

[shahionline]

@Shahionline
Security Manager is OK for Enterp. Visa under provision (d) as far as your Services really present the role of Security Manager.

For example, Services related to Security Manager Role could be:

To train, develop, manage and implement a comprehensive and efficient combined Security programme in coordination with key stakeholders.

To promote and support a security awareness culture within the organisation and to ensure the delivery of professional Security Services at all times.

To ensure the implementation of a robust risk assessment and management process.

To oversee and manage all aspects of crisis management, emergency planning and business continuity.

To provide proactive professional security advice to support the business, especially where an incident could potentially disrupt the business.

To detect and deter any illegal or unusual activity, which could have the potential to affect the interests or the reputation of the organisation.

To maintain regular contact with the relevant management teams, security peers in other organisations and with the civil / law enforcement authorities, as appropriate.


As you are supposed to provide Static and Construction security guarding but the logic behind to provide security guards could be from the points above. Basically you will contract for the services above with your client and where possible you will provide trained security guards or CCTV placements or anything in Security line to accomplish your company's aims. Also to run a company in relation to SIA, you require Non-Front Line SIA License.

Absolute nonsense, and misleading to the person asking the question! The UKBA will look at the core service being provided (security guards) which is at the lowest level of occupational codes. What you are suggesting about the role of the business manger could equally apply to the manager of a minicab firm, but it's already been indicated why a minicab firm does not qualify.

@Lucapooka
why UKBA mentioned Security Managers (code 1174) on the SOC Codes List Page 25. what should be the duties of security managers? detail please

[Lucapooka]

Becuase that is the code for Tier 2 migrant working in an organization in that capacity. It's not the code for a business that provides security guards. The code for that occupation is 9241

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... orkers.pdf

Also, look at appendix A of the immigration rules:

(iv) is working in an occupation which appears on the list of occupations skilled to National Qualifications Framework level 4 or above, as stated in the Codes of Practice in Appendix J, and provides the specified evidence in paragraph 41-SD. "Working" in this context means that the core service his business provides to its customers or clients involves the business delivering a service in an occupation at this level. It excludes any work involved in administration, marketing or website functions for the business,

[shahionline]

Becuase that is the code for Tier 2 migrant working in an organization in that capacity. It's not the code for a business that provides security guards. The code for that occupation is 9241

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... orkers.pdf

Also, look at appendix A of the immigration rules:

(iv) is working in an occupation which appears on the list of occupations skilled to National Qualifications Framework level 4 or above, as stated in the Codes of Practice in Appendix J, and provides the specified evidence in paragraph 41-SD. "Working" in this context means that the core service his business provides to its customers or clients involves the business delivering a service in an occupation at this level. It excludes any work involved in administration, marketing or website functions for the business,

Dear Lucapooka thank you. I completed understand this matter. Now can you please give me any friendly suggestions for Business selection, as I did not register any company yet.

[Lucapooka]

I can't make suggestions about types of business that are suitable as I have no knowledge of your skill set. You don't need any particular skills to work as a bouncer (muscles and the ability to keep awake excepted) and although you have said you have an MBA, you have not said in which discipline.

[shahionline]

I can't make suggestions about types of business that are suitable as I have no knowledge of your skill set. You don't need any particular skills to work as a bouncer (muscles and the ability to keep awake excepted) and although you have said you have an MBA, you have not said in which discipline.

thank you again. I have MBA Degree in Innvoative Managment, Actually I setup online business of Shawls and Scarves, make e-commerce website by professional website developer company, advertised, leaflet, business bank statement, but did not registered with companies house yet, now i come to know from some one and also my own search that trade and online retail business does not qualify PSW, 50,000. So I change my mind and now looking for any business to setup and registered with company house, In which i can provide services which is level 4 or above, but still confused about choosing business.

[RizKCB]

@Lucapooka

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... orkers.pdf

(The following stuff is also from the same link. 1174 was for Security Manager in SOC 2000 and now replaced with 3319 in SOC 2010)


Occupations skilled to NQF level 4
SOC 2010 Description
3319 Protective service associate professionals not elsewhere classified
Example job tasks:

-examines, weighs and counts goods imported by ship or aircraft, ensures that the declared value of goods is satisfactory and that duties and taxes have been paid;
-examines passports, visas, work permits and other immigration documents, and allows or refuses entry into the UK;
-maintains revenue control at breweries, tobacco factories and other premises where dutiable goods are manufactured, processed or stored;
-visits racecourses, greyhound stadiums and betting shops to ensure compliance with legal requirements;
-broadcasts information on weather and maritime conditions, monitors shipping and provides instruction to navigators;
-receives distress messages, alerts other appropriate rescue services and participates in search and rescue operations;
-photographs, fingerprints and undertakes other forms of forensic examination at the scene of a crime;
-analyses security requirements, advises clients, and develops, monitors and improves security measures;
-supervises and assigns duties to security and detection staff.

Related job titles:
- Customs officer
- Immigration officer
- Operations manager (security services)
- Scenes of crime officer
- Security manager

Now In SOC 2010 Volume 2, search for 3319. It will show you all related Titles BUT not Security Guard. What I suggested "Security Manager is OK for Enterp. Visa under provision (d) as far as your Services really present the role of Security Manager." Also given list of some examples and at the end I included that "Where possible providing Security Guards or ....."
I have not suggested to be a Security Guard.

This business is a serious stuff. Its not like a client ask you to send a security guard and next day you send a security guard and after a week you get payment. The contract is signed for the factor: "analyses security requirements, advises clients, and develops, monitors and improves security measurest". In the proposal to meet objectives, Security company decides for different factors including Security Guards, CCTVs etc.

[usmanrana989]

My PSW was expired last year.. can i still apply by showing £50k of my own money? please guide me.

[Lucapooka]

My PSW was expired last year.. can i still apply by showing £50k of my own money? please guide me.

So what is your current immigration status? If you are not inside the UK with current PSW leave, you can't use the 50K psw switiching concession.

RizKCB, I hope for sake of their successful applications that nobody is taking any notice of what are posting here. The OP has stated the scope of his core business and that is what matters to the UKBA. He has absolutely no experience or expertise in any of the security areas you have mentioned. Perhaps in the future he may or may not develop his operations into other areas of interest that are covered in the SOC for a level 4 activity, but that is not relevant to the here and now.

You can't use a fish and chip shop to get a PSW - Tier 1 (Ent) switch on the basis that you hope to turn into a more diversified operation in the future!

[top]

Dear Sir,

If you are so after opening up a security company where you could show your role working at level 4 or above before administrating a business as comments above everyone spoke against your idea spoke right cos you cant prove or justify your role as required by UKBA you in case might think of opening up a recruitment agency instead where you recruit only security guards and provide services to other security companies you tend to compete other security companies if you come up as a security company but being recruitment agency you provide services(security guards)to same companies as clients.

it is just an idea(take it as an option) that may work for you with a possible aspect to create a job title acceptable to UKBA, you would still need a SIA contract Scheme registration enabling you to run recruitment agency lawfully which deals with security guards and provide relevant services as security...

[usmanrana989]

My PSW was expired last year.. can i still apply by showing £50k of my own money? please guide me.

So what is your current immigration status? If you are not inside the UK with current PSW leave, you can't use the 50K psw switiching concession.

i am currently out of UK with no valid leave or visa atm. i am thinking to do it via a solid business plan and get it approved... but i need help for how to do it.. ??

Thanks