Naturalisation, Right of Abode and passport soon to expire

[treborson]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I've had a search around the forum and found some great information to help with applying for BC. I can't find an answer to a few questions I have.

I currently live in the UK with a certificate of entitlement to the Right of Abode in a Canadian passport. I've been here for 8 years and married to a BC for 3. The Canadian passport is going to expire in December this year. I've seen other posts ask about expired passports and that it's alright to apply with a passport that is expired but for the Right of Abode unlike the ILR, the certificate expires with the passport and to get a new one requires starting from scratch and applying again. I intend to apply in the next week or two so it would be valid at the time of applying. Is that good enough or would expiring during the decision time of the application cause a problem?

If it is alright to use that passport as both identification and proof that I'm free of immigration at the time of applying (the right of abode), am I able to renew the Canadian passport while the application is in? I'm planning on applying through the NCS so I would be keeping the passport. Does renewing a passport before a decision is made mean I have to inform the Home Office of the new passport? This new passport would not have the Right of Abode in it as you can't have BC and a certificate for the Right of Abode in a foreign passport. Would that cause any problems with living in the UK without a valid Right of Abode certificate while a decision is being made?

I realise this is long winded but if I can renew the Canadian passport, is there any chance I can travel during the time the BC application is in? I'm only talking about a weekend away in France in November. Would I be able to show the expired right of abode and say that an application for BC is still being decided to get back in the UK.

If anyone has answers to any of the questions here I would be very grateful for your help. Thanks!

[vinny]

When were you born and on what basis do you have the Right of Abode?

[treborson]

Hi Vinny,

I was born in 1979. I have the ROA from my Dad being born in the UK. The only reason I don't have citizenship from that is because I was adopted. I could have had citizenship if I applied before I was 18 but I was 24 when I came over to the UK and the ROA was what I was entitled to.

[neoseal]

Hi, need clarification in your post - applying means you are looking to apply for British Citizenship based on spouse 3 years residence?

If you apply while your passport is still valid means that right of abode is still valid at the time of application. Once you log BC application, means there is no further need for right of abode to be valid, you can have only one of the either. I don't think you can apply for BC as well as apply to renew right of abode, it will be conflicting.

You only have your passport to prove you are free from immigration restriction and also that will be your id.

You can renew your Canadian passport while BC application is in progress. In fact you can hold both British and Canadian passport as both countries allow dual citizenship. I don't think expiring right of abode while application is in progress will be problem, but confirm with UKBA.

You can enter back into UK on the strength of Canadian Passport, however that will be classed as "visitor". You can carry your expired passport and explain the immigration officer that BC application is in process and hence cannot renew right of abode. He may refuse to accept right of abode but let you enter as visitor and in the mean time you may get your approval.

Hope I have made some sense.

[vinny]

A British citizen may have a ROA sticker in a foreign passport if s/he is not a British passport holder.

[neoseal]

Yes ROA sticker in foreign passport is to avoid trouble carrying two passports. But then ROA expires with the passport.

Technically treborson can apply to renew ROA, but then why would he want to spend extra money.

[vinny]

Hi Vinny,

I was born in 1979. I have the ROA from my Dad being born in the UK. The only reason I don't have citizenship from that is because I was adopted. I could have had citizenship if I applied before I was 18 but I was 24 when I came over to the UK and the ROA was what I was entitled to.

Are you certain that you are not automatically a British citizen?

[treborson]

Hi Neoseal,

Yes I am looking to apply based on spouse 3 years residence. I was not planning on renewing the ROA, just the Canadian Passport. If I renew the Canadian passport do I need to inform UKBA while the application is still in? You mention to confirm with the UKBA. What is the best way to contact them and get an answer? I've tried the phone number that never seems to get to a person and I've emailed the 'further information' email address twice with no response in the last 3 weeks. Thanks you have made sense!

Vinny, are you saying that I may be a citizen now? I'm not sure that I am entitled to a UK passport now but how would I confirm that?

I am trying to avoid applying for the ROA again as I need to get many documents from my parents each time a Canadian passport expires. As I now have a family here in the UK and plan on staying for the foreseeable future I wanted to become a citizen and get a UK passport.

Thanks for the help.

[vinny]

Click on the given link for more information.

[vinny]

If there's doubt, then try applying for confirmation of British nationality status.

[neoseal]

Vinny has pointed the right thing for you to explore. You may already be a BC.

[treborson]

Hi,

I tried to get citizenship in 2004 before first coming to the UK from Canada thinking I would get it by descent from my dad. That's when I found out that being adopted meant that I was not entitled to citizenship. I was entitled to the ROA. I believe it is possible to have the ROA without being a citizen?

I took a look at the link Vinny posted. I'm not sure I understand all of it, but it does mention in 2.4.4 'The term "father" in those charts (annex a,b,c) means the natural father of a legitimate child'. Annex A,B,C charts are the ones that would link me to being a BC now.

I wish I didn't have to apply and pay the fee for naturalisation but I'm not sure anything has changed since 2004 that makes me a citizen now.

Thanks again for the help

[vinny]

Annex C (G.) refers to adoption in the UK.

[JAJ]

Hi,

I tried to get citizenship in 2004 before first coming to the UK from Canada thinking I would get it by descent from my dad. That's when I found out that being adopted meant that I was not entitled to citizenship. I was entitled to the ROA. I believe it is possible to have the ROA without being a citizen?

I believe you are correct. Adoption outside the United Kingdom does not normally give British citizenship. An application for registration can be made up to age 18, but most of those eligible miss the deadline.

As a Canadian (Commonwealth country) citizen adopted by a British born parent before 1983, you get Right of Abode.

Your Right of Abode is a status under the immigration laws and does not expire even if the evidence of ROA (passport stamp) is expired.

[treborson]

Hi

Vinny, the answer to Annex C (G) would be no as I was adopted in Canada and not the UK. So I am not currently a BC

So am I right in believing that I am now able to Naturalise as a BC now that I've been married to a BC for 3 years and the Right of Abode has kept me free from immigration while being here?

Also does anyone know a way to get a response to a question from UKBA just so I can confirm that the right of abode document expiring while the application is in will not cause a problem? Or if travelling without a ROA in a new passport while the application is in will also cause a problem.

Thanks

[vinny]

So am I right in believing that I am now able to Naturalise as a BC now that I've been married to a BC for 3 years and the Right of Abode has kept me free from immigration while being here?

Yes. You could probably have naturalised on the date of your marriage to a British citizen, if you had also been previously living in the UK for at least 3 years.

[JAJ]

So am I right in believing that I am now able to Naturalise as a BC now that I've been married to a BC for 3 years and the Right of Abode has kept me free from immigration while being here?

In fact, the requirement is marriage to a BC (on date of application) + 3 years legal residence (immediately before application) + settled status on date of application (ROA is acceptable).

Or, without considering marital status, 5 years legal residence, including at least 1 year with settled status.

You appear to qualify both ways however it is normally better to naturalise on grounds of marriage since that does not require you to express a future intention to live in the United Kingdom.

Also does anyone know a way to get a response to a question from UKBA just so I can confirm that the right of abode document expiring while the application is in will not cause a problem?

There is no way to get a response. They don't do personal consultancy. And even if they did respond, would you automatically assume the response was correct. However, you may wish to search for and find the Home Office Nationality Instructions.

You've already been told that ROA is held independently of any evidence of same. If you wish to research that further, it would be recommended to read the relevant legislation rather than try to phone a call centre.

[treborson]

Thanks for the response JAJ. The main reason for wanting to contact the UKBA was just about the passport (and therefore the ROA) expiring in 2 months. I just wanted to be sure that it did not affect the application and also wanted to be sure I'm ok to stay in the UK without the ROA while the application is in. I've found lots of information on the UKBA site which is how I figured out that I am able to naturalise but I could not find anything for my questions. Neoseal did say that I will be ok as long as it's valid at the time of applying. I just wanted to be absolutely sure before spending the money on the application.

Thanks for your help.

[vinny]

A British passport does not confer British citizenship, but is merely evidence of it.

Similarly, the Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode does not confer your Right of Abode, but is merely evidence of it.