Naturalization 15 months after an ILR application

[Amber]

You should be ok.

[segs2tier1]

You should be ok.

Thanks for that and I hope so it goes ok.

The reason I am a bit concerned is that the women said I will write what the guy from the HO said on this form - basically that my application will be refused by the HO adviser and I still went against his advice.

I felt a bit like who the hell are you to decide the out come now and it was a bit sad that HO chap was bullshitting so confidentally on the phone, its just unreal and sad.

Lets hope the case worker has some sense and ignores their ramblings.

[Amber]

She's just protecting herself.

[John]

I really do wish UKBA would properly train their staff, and teach them to read the instructions to their staff.

[Amber]

I know John, by the look of many decisions and the knowledge of many Home Office members of staff the training is sparse and leaves a lot to be desired. Moreover, this seems the consensus throughout the civil service.

[Ged]

You should be ok.

Thanks for that and I hope so it goes ok.

The reason I am a bit concerned is that the women said I will write what the guy from the HO said on this form - basically that my application will be refused by the HO adviser and I still went against his advice.

I felt a bit like who the hell are you to decide the out come now and it was a bit sad that HO chap was bullshitting so confidently on the phone, its just unreal and sad.

Lets hope the case worker has some sense and ignores their ramblings.

First of all, I wish you best of luck. I agree with everything you are saying.

I tried to apply using Edinburgh NCS, last week, and the woman works there did the same thing to me. She called the UKBA, and came back refusing my application. As a result I lost £66 booking fee. It did not matter when I insisted that she send my application anyway. This happened when I showed her the written confirmation email by the Nationality Policy Team from the Home Office. The UKBA guy on the phone simply told her that he did not know such a person. It was unbelievably surreal. Written confirmation with the name and position of the Home Office official did not matter. I had an official confirmation email which says I could apply, but still I could not apply and lost £66.

I have already launched an official complaint about this and I intend to go all the way up to the ombudsman too, but will that compensate for the grief I suffered? I cannot stop being amazed with the level of stupidity and lack of training, mixed with bullying between the council and the UKBA. They go hand to hand against the random migrant trying to benefit from a very obvious legal clause. The biggest frustration I have is the fact that I still have to deal with these people again in 4 more months. I curse every minute of it.

The Edinburgh Council NCS woman says this; The UKBA guy on the phone argued that the 7 months processing time of my ILR application did not compare too badly against the 6 months published service standards therefore the discretion would not apply. The chap on the phone does not seem to think there was anything wrong with how long my application has taken to deal with.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am afraid BCMN1 and 01yoseph both still have not received an answer for their applications. This happened although they applied in September. This looks like the UKBA are either very confused or want to bully people until they get frustrated so that they avoid the early application. I will not be surprised if they receive their results normally, as if they applied at the end of their usual 12 months (I hope I am wrong and they get a faster response).

Depending on the answer I get to my complaint letter I may make a postal application in early January, or I may just swallow it for another 4 months.

[Amber]

There has been a recent success (click).

[segs2tier1]

You should be ok.

Thanks for that and I hope so it goes ok.

The reason I am a bit concerned is that the women said I will write what the guy from the HO said on this form - basically that my application will be refused by the HO adviser and I still went against his advice.

I felt a bit like who the hell are you to decide the out come now and it was a bit sad that HO chap was bullshitting so confidently on the phone, its just unreal and sad.

Lets hope the case worker has some sense and ignores their ramblings.

First of all, I wish you best of luck. I agree with everything you are saying.

I tried to apply using Edinburgh NCS, last week, and the woman works there did the same thing to me. She called the UKBA, and came back refusing my application. As a result I lost £66 booking fee. It did not matter when I insisted that she send my application anyway. This happened when I showed her the written confirmation email by the Nationality Policy Team from the Home Office. The UKBA guy on the phone simply told her that he did not know such a person. It was unbelievably surreal. Written confirmation with the name and position of the Home Office official did not matter. I had an official confirmation email which says I could apply, but still I could not apply and lost £66.

I have already launched an official complaint about this and I intend to go all the way up to the ombudsman too, but will that compensate for the grief I suffered? I cannot stop being amazed with the level of stupidity and lack of training, mixed with bullying between the council and the UKBA. They go hand to hand against the random migrant trying to benefit from a very obvious legal clause. The biggest frustration I have is the fact that I still have to deal with these people again in 4 more months. I curse every minute of it.

The Edinburgh Council NCS woman says this; The UKBA guy on the phone argued that the 7 months processing time of my ILR application did not compare too badly against the 6 months published service standards therefore the discretion would not apply. The chap on the phone does not seem to think there was anything wrong with how long my application has taken to deal with.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am afraid BCMN1 and 01yoseph both still have not received an answer for their applications. This happened although they applied in September. This looks like the UKBA are either very confused or want to bully people until they get frustrated so that they avoid the early application. I will not be surprised if they receive their results normally, as if they applied at the end of their usual 12 months (I hope I am wrong and they get a faster response).

Depending on the answer I get to my complaint letter I may make a postal application in early January, or I may just swallow it for another 4 months.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Please take this all the way to the end because they will not argue with you when you present them the Nationality Act which is set in law. The Home Office 'advisor' may flex his muscles against you over the phone but in the end of the day they have to follow the law - some of them literally hate their lives so dont blame them for being incompetent Oh, they all operate from a bullshit bunker anyway!

Other than that, they told you that 7 months is not too bad, guess what they told me, they were like that 15 months means that your application should have taken 15 months to decide. I was laughing when I heard him said that, the NCS lady was shocked and she knew I know the law so she kinda started being nice to me in the end.

I got straight to the point and asked her not to waste my time and send my application, if I get refused based on what he is saying on the phone I will deal with it my self.

[segs2tier1]

I know John, by the look of many decisions and the knowledge of many Home Office members of staff the training is sparse and leaves a lot to be desired. Moreover, this seems the consensus throughout the civil service.

You might find this interesting.

When I left the NCS office I was handed a NCS client care record which is basically a check list of all the things that is required - I just went through it once again and this is what got my attention. On page 1 it says:

''For all NCS naturalisation applications, NCS providers must use either A, B or C below, depending on the type of application submitted. The requirements in bold indicate those in which the secretary of state has no discretion. These requirements have to be met. If any of the requirements not in bold are not met, the applicant must request that discretion be exercised by the Secretary of State, and the reasons why such discretion should be exercised should be entered at page 13 of the naturalisation application form AN''

I come under section A mentioned above which is the requirements for section 6(1) and on page 2 ticking for those requirements this is what caught my attention - one of the sentences in bold (where Secretory of State has no discretion as mentioned above) says the following:

- Have you held settled status for 12 months prior to the date of your application today? (It would be a NO in my case)

Now, based on this document which I have signed at the end, I know I dont meet the 12 month requirement but I have asked for discretion under chaper 18, annex B, 7.5 (g) and the first paragraph on first page says the Secretory of State has no discretion on such things which contradicts the BNA.

So, what do you think?

[Amber]

The thing where there is no discretion is being physically present in the UK. 3(5) years prior to the Home Office receiving the application.

[mianswat]

Hi All,

I am in the same boat as others here and like others I am a little reluctant to apply under 15 months rule.

My application for ILR was submitted on 16 October 2012 and I only got my ILR on 26 Aug 2013, it took them 10.5 months to process my application. When I was waiting for the decision I contacted my MP who did chase HO on my behalf. In reply to those letters from MP, HO sent a letter stating that this delay is due to their backlog.

What I am planning to do is to go through NCS (so that at least I can get my originals back straight away) using 15 months rule (it will be 15 months on 15/01.14), I will be including following additional documents on top of required documents

a cover letter explaining why I m applying before 12 months
Copy of naturalisation rules, (highlighting 15 months rule)
Home office acknowledgment letter stating that it was their fault for the delay

NCS is an advisory service, they can advise you not to apply using 15 months rule but the decision lies with the individual. NCS will still assist you with preparing the application.

My Advise would be that if your delay was 8 months plus and for some reason you cannot wait 12 months, to go ahead and proceed with this. otherwise it is only a matter of 3/4 months.

People who have applied using 15 months rule, it would be of great help if you can share your experiences here as there seems to be not many benefiting from this rule

[Aryan2013]

Hi segs2tier1,

Any news on your application?

Cheers!

Well, I applied today using the NCS based on the 15 month rule.

The women at the NCS gave me a hard time saying my ILR had not been granted 12 months ago and there is still 4 months to go but I kept referring her to chapter 18, annex B para 7.5g of the BNA and she could not under stand it.

She had to call one of the ''advisors'' of the Home office and say what I was about to do and they were even useless. Some chap on the otherside of the phone kept saying yeah you need 12 months and this and that with no explanation to 7.5g. Basically, I said, can he give me what ever he has said in writing? I got no answer to that..

I told the women you get all sorts of stuff from the HO over the phone but no one is willing to put their reputation on the line by giving you what they have said in writing.

Either way, I sent my application off today and ticked the box that I do not have the 12 month residential requirement because my application was delayed through no fault of my own, took 8 months to come through.

Lets see what happens.

I have bitten the bullet for you all, see if I get through or get refused.

[segs2tier1]

Hi Aryan2013,

Yes, my application was successful.

As you know from the above posts I applied 15 months after the date of my ILR application where by I had only spent 8 months on ILR. It is a joke that we all hear different stories about what would happen, some said I will get refused, the NCS lady said I will get refused, the Home Office advisor to the NCS lady said I would get refused yet I decided to risk it because I had the rules in my favour and wrote it in my application educating the case worker and I was approved with no problems.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
segs2tier1

[Amber]

Congratulations!

[mianswat]

Hi All,

A little update from me, my citizenship application is approved:

Date of application: 12/03/2014
Date of approval: 02/05/2014.


Please refer to my previous post on this theread to know more about my case.

I applied using 15 months rule

[paicam]

I applied using 15 month rule...
I was a silent observer of this forum and found it very useful.... here is some update from me...
Eligibility criteria: HSMP+Tier1+ 8 Month ILR when applied (Due on Sep 20th but applied on June 16th requesting to apply discretion clause 7.5g of Chapter 18 Annex B. Our ILR application had taken 8months)
Language criteria met: Life in the UK & NAIRC certificate
Method of application: NCS
Council name if NCS used: NCS - Cambridge
Date of application: 16/06/2014
Payment method CC/DC: CC
Date of receipt by UKBA: 17/06/2014
Date of acknowledgment: 25/06/2014
Date of debit or clearance of fees: 20/06/2014
Date approval received: 24/10/2014 letter dated 13/10/2014
Date of ceremony: TBD

Called HO on 23rd, the person on the phone was very kind (Son's current passport was getting expired next month so we were under pressure, in a dilemma whether to renew or not ). He checked the status and told that the decision letter has been dispatched on 20th October and it should be there in a few days. He checked my postal address as well just to rule out any mistakes.

Thanks to everyone for sharing details which was very useful for me.

[Proop09]

Genuine problem here.
My application has been protracted through no fault of mine for more than 15 months. From 2012
Was eventually granted ILR in October.
I can now apply for Naturalisation on basis of discretion, but this rule seems to have been taken down & I currently have no source of it from the gov.uk website.

Has there been a change...?

I would like to include chapter 18 paragraph 7.5g in my an form.
Anyone know where to find a reliable source on this information??

[vinny]

Annex B is currently missing in action!

[Proop09]

Impossible!

[vinny]

It's back.

[Proop09]

I applied for ILR on 17/10/2012 and it was eventually granted after a gruelling 24 months on the 21/10/2014.
This was no fault of my own as HO later apologised after many complaints.

Can I now apply for Naturalisation based on Chapter 18 annex B paragraph 7.5 ??