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Spouse visa Vs PR or indefinate stay

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kmanoj11
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Spouse visa Vs PR or indefinate stay

Post by kmanoj11 » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:38 am

Hi, I Am holding Indian passport and married to British Citizen girl. I am holding spouse visa valid till 2009. My question is:

1. Is Spouse visa same as indefinate stay or PR? Ofcouse I would need to apply for PR or British passport after certain time.
2. Does Spouse visa comes under work permit category or it comes under PR?
3. If me and my wife move out of country for a period of time, will I be eligible to apply for PR in UK after certain time?

Pls answer this questions urgently.

Thanks in advance,
Manoj

sakura
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Post by sakura » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:34 pm

A spouse visa is a temporary* visa, in that it expires after two years, and if nothing is done before its expiry, you will be classified as an overstayer (i.e. someone without legal residency). It leads to Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), which is the UK's version of permanent residency. So, it is a visa that leads to "settlement" after two years (less 28 days, really).

If you are on a spouse visa, it is not the same as PR (ILR), as you are still subject to immigration control. I don't know how long you have been in the UK, but if you came here with a spouse visa, after 2 years (less 28 days), you apply for ILR, and after 12 months on ILR you apply for naturalisation (subject to terms and conditions!).

Spouse visa isn't the same as a WP; it is a shorter time period to ILR/BC, and generally comes under the visas for partners heading.

If you leave the UK for a very long time, you'll probably have to re-apply for a spouse visa to come back to the UK. If it is only a few weeks or so, then that shouldn't be a problem. How long are we talking about?


*"Temporary" may not be the best word to use but I can't think of another word right now!

Dawie
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Post by Dawie » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:39 pm

sakura wrote:If you are on a spouse visa, it is not the same as PR (ILR), as you are still subject to immigration control.
Actually, holders of indefinite leave to remain are also subject to immigration control, the only difference is that they have no time limit and conditions on their stay.
In a few years time we'll look back on immigration control like we look back on American prohibition in the thirties - futile and counter-productive.

kmanoj11
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Post by kmanoj11 » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:41 pm

Thanks for your reply. We are not sure how long we would be out of UK but planning to come back before my spouse visa expires here. I have been here for about 5 months now and my visa is valid till Jan' 2009.

What would be problems if we both are out of UK for about an year? I spoke to HO and they told me as long as my wife is going with me, it should not be a problem but we would need to provide some proofs that we are out of the country like bank statement, bills etc. from other country.

In case we're not able to come back for a year, what would be impact? Would it be like new spouse visa and then starting duration of 2 yrs again?

sakura
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Post by sakura » Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:05 pm

Dawie wrote:
sakura wrote:If you are on a spouse visa, it is not the same as PR (ILR), as you are still subject to immigration control.
Actually, holders of indefinite leave to remain are also subject to immigration control, the only difference is that they have no time limit and conditions on their stay.
Oh yes, of course, since they are not naturalised yet. I wonder how many have had their ILRs revoked, and they subsequently removed from the UK. Any stats on that?

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:47 pm

Oh yes, of course, since they are not naturalised yet. I wonder how many have had their ILRs revoked, and they subsequently removed from the UK. Any stats on that?
I have no figures to hand, but it's rare for someone with ILR to be removed from the country. The general basis of ILR has been that it is possible to make one's home in the UK with that status, and this remains true.

For example, some countries have a general policy that anyone who is a permanent resident but not a citizen is automatically deported (sometimes after serving a prison sentence) if found guilty of a criminal act. That has not been the case in the UK. The recent controversy about non-citizen prisoners who were not deported after serving their sentences was really about the fact that these people had not, apparently, been considered for deportation; had they been considered for deportation, many of them would nevertheless not have been deported. Some parts of the popular press and media, of course, got worked up and assumed (or appeared to assume) that all non-citizens who serve a prison sentence should be automatically deported - but that has not been the practice in the UK.

The most common way - by far - that people lose their ILR status is by ceasing to live in the UK. Not living in the UK is generally taken as meaning being out of the country for two years, which is a reasonable rule of thumb but actually it is more complicated than that.

avjones
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Post by avjones » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:24 pm

In my experience, the Home Office is making deportation orders must more often against people with ILR who have committed criminal offences - I am doing more deportation appeals these days.
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

Jeff Albright
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Post by Jeff Albright » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:50 am

Dawie wrote: Actually, holders of indefinite leave to remain are also subject to immigration control, the only difference is that they have no time limit and conditions on their stay.
Whilst there is no exact definition of the term "subject to immigration control" within the Immigration Act, it normally means someone with some form of restrictions on period of their stay and other conditions. ILR-holder is usually viewed as someone "settled" in the UK by many authorities, such as BIA, local government, DWP, etc., thus not being subject to immigration control anymore. Naturally, ILR can be revoked but those are rare cases, such as for example, when it was obtained by deception, that following the return of the recognised refugee to the country they sought protection from or those cases, of course, when the holder committed serious crime.

Dawie
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Post by Dawie » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:04 am

Jeff Albright wrote:
Dawie wrote: Actually, holders of indefinite leave to remain are also subject to immigration control, the only difference is that they have no time limit and conditions on their stay.
Whilst there is no exact definition of the term "subject to immigration control" within the Immigration Act, it normally means someone with some form of restrictions on period of their stay and other conditions. ILR-holder is usually viewed as someone "settled" in the UK by many authorities, such as BIA, local government, DWP, etc., thus not being subject to immigration control anymore. Naturally, ILR can be revoked but those are rare cases, such as for example, when it was obtained by deception, that following the return of the recognised refugee to the country they sought protection from or those cases, of course, when the holder committed serious crime.
Anyone who, on arrival in the UK, requires the permission of an immigration officer to enter the country is "subject to immigration control". This includes holders of ILR who always need to seek permission to enter the UK despite their settled status. This effectively means immigration officers have the right to question them as to the nature of their stay, how long they have been away, what their profession is, etc, etc, and ultimately make a decision not to admit them.

This is an important point because holders of ILR DO NOT have the automatic right to enter the UK. Each and every time an ILR holder presents himself for entry to the UK, his entry is at the discretion of the examining immigration officer.

People who are not subject to immigration control have an inalienable right to live in the UK (right of abode or in the case of EU citizens, treaty rights) and therefore require no permission to enter the UK. Of course, they are still required to present their passports on entry to prove this right. Eu citizens' rights to live in the UK are not entirely inalienable, as they can still be deported and barred from the UK on public security grounds.
In a few years time we'll look back on immigration control like we look back on American prohibition in the thirties - futile and counter-productive.

Jeff Albright
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Post by Jeff Albright » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:22 am

Actually, Dawie, you have made a good point, matey.
I have researched the info and definitions this evening and found that in terms of admission rules, any non-British or EU citizen, with exception of those who have right to abode, are classed as subject to immigration control and the IDI instructions are in http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

which proves your right under the Immigration Acts.
However, in everyday life, this term is somewhat vague and loses its correct sense so that many authorieis in the UK consider that an ILR holder should be viewed as someone subject to no restrictions or conditions under the Immigration Acts, because they enjoy almost the same benefits as British citizens.

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