Visit Visa issued then 4 days later cancelled

[SYH]

Congratulations.

[eastwest]

Hi All,

What is the general consensus of opinion regarding how an ECO/ECM will see our future marriage in Moldova? In particular I wish to know if I should apply for a fiancee visa and then get married in the UK or get married in Moldova and then apply for a Spouse visa? If we went straight for Spouse visa would this be viewed as a marriage of convenience?

Our intentions are to get married, but applying for a fiancee visa and possibly having it rejected, then getting married and then applying for a Spouse Visa surely looks suspicious also. Although to my mind it is a perfectly logical progression as one does get married after getting engaged.

Any advice please?

[SYH]

Again, they concluded you were getting married so you should go straight to the marriage visa which has more rights

[eastwest]

To bring this page up to date, we applied for JR and the visit visa was re-issued on August 8th - Great.

We got engaged in July and married on 26 October.

Applied for Spouse Visa and refused on the grounds that the marriage was not genuine.

Documents submitted with application:-

Documentation binder for sections 1 thru 33 inclusive, below, submitted included the following:-

1. Letter from Sponsor (Husband)

2. Two page Personal Statement by myself detailing our relationship under the following headings:

(i) First contact: How our relationship started on 3rd August 2006,
(ii) First visit: Our first meeting
(iii) Falling in love and further visits
(iv) Daily communications
(v) More visits
(vi) Holiday in Bulgaria and our Engagement (July 2007)
(vii) Wedding plans
(viii) Visit to the UK (Holiday Sept/Oct 2007)
(ix) The wedding
(x) Settlement visa application
(xi) Our plans for the future.

3. A4 page showing 5 photographs from our wedding and reception

4. Certified, English translation and legalized Certificate of Marriage, which is recognized in The Hague.

5. Receipts for Engagement and wedding rings (2 wedding rings).

6. Receipt from reception restaurant venue.

7. Both Divorce Certificates

8. Both Birth Certificates

9. Copies of my wife's and my passports showing 12 visit visas to Moldova by myself, visit visas to Bulgaria and UK by my wife.

10. Original Internet Dating profile.

11. Four receipts of flowers sent by international courier to my wife over 12 months.

12. Copies of e-mails showing e-mail contact.

13. Copy of Skype Internet call history

14. Mobile phone itemized telephone bills.

15. A4 copy of 14 photo’s printed on photographic paper of us together in Moldova, on holiday in Bulgaria and on holiday in UK – including in front of Buckingham Palace.

16. Hotel reservation of Hotel Velingrad (Bulgaria) and invoices showing both names.

17. Hotel invoice for The Royal Lancaster Hotel on Hyde Park in London showing both names.

18. Receipt for Restaurant called “Livebaitâ€

[SYH]

[quote="eastwest"]
You wish to join your husband who is a British Citizen in the UK and settle there. You state you first met your husband in August 2006 on the internet, following a profile you posted on a dating website and of which you have provided a copy. I note from this internet profile that you were seeking marriage. You state that since you met, your husband has visited you in Moldova every month. You married in October 2007 in Moldova and provided your marriage certificate to substantiate your claim, As evidence of a subsisting relationship over a number of months you have provided several photographs together with some internet Skype phone records and your husbands phone bill. However, I am not satisfied this to be evidence of meaningful contact. Apart from holiday tickets and photographs, you have provided no evidence of you living together. You were asked (questions 43-46 of the interview notes) to provide some personal detail about your life with your husband. You stated – inter alia – that, “he is very attentiveâ€

[eastwest]

To say that we have a fight on our hands is an understatement I think!!

The main problem is with a particular ECM at this Embassy who is not happy about the attempts I have made to secure the visit visa in the past. This included an application for a JR. UKVisas then decided to re-issue the visit visa. The same ECM yesterday claimed that it was his decision to do this, not UKVisas. Although he was also the ECM that originally cancelled the visit visa in the first place! I also wrote to my MP and he wrote a two page FAX to the Ambassador which was also instrumental in re-issuing the visa.

I now have to start this whole process again!

[avjones]

You poor sod, what a nightmare!

[paulp]

Eastwest, give them a good fight. And the moment your wife gets her spouse visa, put her on a flight to the UK on the same day.

[INSIDER]

I know this is probably a long shot; but is your wife an ethnic Romanian and might she be entitled to a Romanian passport by any chance?

Ask her you never know?

[Jeff Albright]

George, you need to go through the appeal to full extent. There is 28 days limit that applies.
Good luck!

[MikeKorea]

George,

Your situation is disgusting and it makes me angry just reading it, but it seems very much in keeping with the way these bureaucrats are behaving of late. We're not living in a totalitarian state - I think it's completely unacceptable for them to have demanded detailed travel plans and I also find it very concerning that there are material discrepancies between your account of the interview and the ECO's - although I'm not surprised because my wife had the same experience. It's high time these interviews were recorded by audio or video means to prevent these kinds of 'mistakes' from arising.

It's all very well for us all to fight our individual cases through the courts, and I suspect some of us will win and some of us will lose arbitrarily, but how do we fight an attitude? To my mind this is not really a legal problem but a political one, and it requires a political solution. I've been in correspondence with my local MP - a Junior Minister - and he wrote to the Embassy as well but it didn't help in my case. When I recently put it to his office that ECO decisions in the last few months were the result of a shift in policy by the Government - a decision by someone to get-tough if you will - I got a rather terse response back which makes me believe it's true, and that I won't be getting any more help from him either. But perhaps it's worth writing to your MP again? Eventually, we might find a politician with an actual understanding of the concept of human rights and the old-fashioned notion of being innocent until proven guilty rather than finding guilt based on even the smallest detail, and they might do something more substantive about it in London rather than firing off letters to Ambassadors, or being rude to the people they are supposed to represent.

The other possibility is using the media. I know that there isn't a great deal of sympathy for immigration in the UK, but what is happening here is the Government is forcing British people to leave the UK or live in effective exile with their spouses outside the country. It doesn't take a great deal to think through the way that might look in the context of everything else which is going on in our country.

Mike

[eastwest]

Dear INSIDER,

Thank you for the suggestion about the possibility of checking into my wife's Romanian ethnicity. She says that her mother was born in Romania, but this route is not easy to prove. We will consider this route if other routes fail. Thank you.

George

[eastwest]

Dear MikeKorea,

We met with our MP on Saturday and he was very supportive. He is writing to the Ambassador again. I will keep you all informed of developments.

George

[eastwest]

Dear Amanda,

I address this question to you: Given the case of our application as I have stated it, should we use an Immigration Lawyer to draft the appeal or do it ourselves?

If anyone else wishes to comment, then please feel free.

My wife is insisting on not wasting money by using a Lawyer as we used one to do the application and this was a complete waste of our money.

Can an application of appeal be effective if I prepare it or should I seek "expert" advise? When I got divorced I used a solicitor. It cost me 4,000, it cost my wife 17,000! The reason for the difference in cost was that I chose a non-expensive solicitor and did most of the work myself.

Any advice in this area would be appreciated. I note that there are quite a few anti-lawyer opinons on this forum on different pages.

Thanks.

George

[tinux]

Hi
I am really sorry to hear what you have been put throw. I can not understand how those people at Embassy work????????? they are definitly human but without a heart. this is very sickening.

The Good news is that even if the sky join the earth your Mrs will be legally in the Uk because your case is genuine. just stay cool don't lose your temper. it will work out a lot better at the end. trust me on this cos it make sense.
I personally have seen 2 cases more or less like yours and to read your case again simply make me hate the Embassies

[avjones]

It's hard to say - I can't give an unbiased opinion, as I am a lawyer!

Up to you, really.

[Jeff Albright]

George,

What you have been through is a bit ludicrous.
I don't think you need a solicitor. You have already prepared all your case yourself and provided all the necessary documentation as per the Immigration Rules.
If I were you, I would simply forward all these documents to the Immigration Judge. Just fill in the appeal form and comment on each of the paragraph of the ECO's letter and send it to the Tribunal.
I think this case may win even without a hearing (on Immigration Rules) without a reference to the HRA.
I don't think the Embassador or MP would help, the only person who has legal powers to put justice in place is the Immigration Judge.

Good luck!

Jeff

[eastwest]

UPDATE: Refused Settlement Visa appealed on 14th December 2007. Two page letter from MP sent to Ambassador on 6th January 2008. My wife returned from the UK to Moldova on 6th February (4-days prior to visit visa expiry date). On 7th February UK Embassy called my wife to ask her to take her passport to Embassy in Moldova. Spouse visa issued on 12th February.

Celebrations !!

Can anyone advise what documentary evidence we need to collect for the next 23 months? Is it 5-10 different forms of co-habitaion evidence (phone, gas, electricity bills, etc.) ?

Also can my wife go on holiday to other EU countries (Spain, Italy) etc., without obtaining a visa for those countries?

So we will both be living in the UK afterall !!!!

Thanks for everyone's advise and help.

George

[Jeff Albright]

Celebrations !!

Great news! Congratulations. I never had a doubt that justice would prevail in your case.

Can anyone advise what documentary evidence we need to collect for the next 23 months? Is it 5-10 different forms of co-habitaion evidence (phone, gas, electricity bills, etc.) ?

Correct. Just keep all the docs where your both names are shown. However, I wouldn't worry about this now. It is time for you to celebrate with a few glasses of wine on a tropical island

Also can my wife go on holiday to other EU countries (Spain, Italy) etc., without obtaining a visa for those countries?

Unfortunately, a Schengen visa will still be required. There should be no problems of getting one, though.

All the best for the future!!!

[eastwest]

Thanks Jeff!!

I may be asking the following questions in the wrong place - apologies if so. I have looked at the other pages but can't find the information that I require.

My wife will be entering the UK on the 20 Feb on her 2 year Spouse Visa.

Q1. Can I enrol her with my GP's surgery with just a 2 yr LTR ?
(She is healthy and does not require a doctor!!)

Q2. Looking forward to ILR in 2 years time, does my wife have to take the Life in the UK test prior to the expiry of this visa?

Q3. What about the ESOL - She speaks 40-50% English now. Does she need to take this in order to help apply for ILR in the future?

Q4. My wife is from Moldova and has a driving license. What are the requirements for driving here in the UK? Does she have to take a UK driving test and written exam?

Thanks again,

George

[eastwest]

Two additional questions:

Q5: My wife still has her previous surname and not my name. We intend to change her surname to my name by deed poll. We also intend to apply for a new Moldovan passport in her new name. Of course we will keep all previous passports and visas. Are there any problems attached to doing this?

Q6: On the SETM form reference is made to "Police Registration Certificates" - what are these? Have we got to register with the local police?

Thanks again,

George

[vinny]

Congratulations!

Can anyone advise what documentary evidence we need to collect for the next 23 months? Is it 5-10 different forms of co-habitaion evidence (phone, gas, electricity bills, etc.) ?

See also Form SET(M).

[vinny]

Thanks Jeff!!

I may be asking the following questions in the wrong place - apologies if so. I have looked at the other pages but can't find the information that I require.

My wife will be entering the UK on the 20 Feb on her 2 year Spouse Visa.

Q1. Can I enrol her with my GP's surgery with just a 2 yr LTR ?
(She is healthy and does not require a doctor!!)

Q2. Looking forward to ILR in 2 years time, does my wife have to take the Life in the UK test prior to the expiry of this visa?

Q3. What about the ESOL - She speaks 40-50% English now. Does she need to take this in order to help apply for ILR in the future?

Q4. My wife is from Moldova and has a driving license. What are the requirements for driving here in the UK? Does she have to take a UK driving test and written exam?

Thanks again,

George

Q1. Yes. See also SPOUSAL VISA GRANTED, NEXT STEPS and NHS Registration for Spouse and Children - confused.

Q2. Yes. She has to meet with the Knowledge of language and life in the United Kingdom requirement before applying for settlement.

Q3. See also any future versions of Form SET(M).

Q4. See also Driving in GB on a foreign licence

[vinny]

Two additional questions:

Q5: My wife still has her previous surname and not my name. We intend to change her surname to my name by deed poll. We also intend to apply for a new Moldovan passport in her new name. Of course we will keep all previous passports and visas. Are there any problems attached to doing this?

Q6: On the SETM form reference is made to "Police Registration Certificates" - what are these? Have we got to register with the local police?

Q5. Isn't her marriage certificate sufficient for her name change? Why would she require a deed poll?

Q6. See also Reporting to the police

[eastwest]

Thanks Vinny,

Fantastic quality answers!!

My wife and I were married in Moldova. She kept her name because of the immigration history trouble with the embassy in Moldova. We thought that if we changed her name to mine and then applied for a new passport in the new name it would just add to the complications. The marriage certificate gives her name and mine as individual names.
Now we need to change hers to mine.

Excellent links - thanks!

George