Justice Minister's first interview - Extracts on Immigration

[ChIrl]

Following are the extracts from Justice Minister interview to Independent publish on Sunday:

Quote:

Immigration is also part of the new Justice Minister’s brief.

“That’s a big issue now because we’ve had such a rapid growth in immigration in the last 10 years and clearly I have to carry the big stick there. Conor has been given the carrot of looking after integration. I’m looking at citizenship, though. We need to look at the need for linguistic competence to be there before we grant citizenship, in English and Irish as well if people want to have that kind of qualification, though I wouldn’t be introducing any note on compulsion there.

“Also there are unacceptable delays in the process that it takes to become a citizen. I think we should welcome persons who look for Irish Citizenship after a reasonable period of residency but I think we should ensure that they’re fully signed up to a core concept of Irishness and linguistic competency and that’s something I have already asked my officials to look at,â€

[runie80]

This is Only a political statement and should be taken with a pinch of salt

and what the hell is "Home Office in Dublin" hahahah This is new to me Joke of the year i would say !

I wonder if there was such a thing

[walrusgumble]

what are you laughing at runie? home office in dublin means the british embassy, who form part of the home office network in whitehall london.

so yes there is such a thing. still find it funny?

home office is another way of saying dept of justice too just like calling bertie ahern prime minister instead of taoisach

[runie80]

Never heard the terms before and yes i know what whitehall and Uk homeoffice is.

All i am laughing is that Minister blaming UK for problems in Ireland

[walrusgumble]

ay touché.

the minister was referring to what the british embassy has to deal with when people associated with britain come to ireland., not blaming them. but he was refering to how a person could freely head over to belfast (as you know part of uk) and then travel down to the south. meaning potential of abuse to the system like years ago. so the irish dept would have to have good relations with members of the british home office.



many would have to go to the embassy for certain things like reapplying for passports and to get themselves registered if staying in ireland

[ChIrl]

Important points by Minister on citizenship:

1) English & Irish language test
2) Minister accepted delays in processing of citizenship applications
3) Citizenship is not something that we can simply confer on the basis of period of residency
4) when people look at non-EU nationals in Ireland, many of them come from the UK

I don't think many of non-EU nationals in Ireland are from UK. It could be other way around.

I expect certain changes in Citizenship application process as you can note that "Minister has already asked officials to look at core concept of Irishness and linguistic competency".

[walrusgumble]

Important points by Minister on citizenship:

1) English & Irish language test
2) Minister accepted delays in processing of citizenship applications
3) Citizenship is not something that we can simply confer on the basis of period of residency
4) when people look at non-EU nationals in Ireland, many of them come from the UK

I don't think many of non-EU nationals in Ireland are from UK. It could be other way around.

I expect certain changes in Citizenship application process as you can note that "Minister has already asked officials to look at core concept of Irishness and linguistic competency".

how did they get to ireland then? know many plane routes that go direct from ireland to e.g. nigeria or china without stopping? that is what the minister means that is all. the irish language requirement, be very unfair asking adults to learn the language. but some eastern countries have that requirement

[ChIrl]

how did they get to ireland then? know many plane routes that go direct from ireland to e.g. nigeria or china without stopping? that is what the minister means that is all. the irish language requirement, be very unfair asking adults to learn the language. but some eastern countries have that requirement

Agreed with your point of view on people coming from UK.

But, do you think new Justice Minister will speed up processing times for Citizenship, as he is clearly stating that current processing times are unacceptable.

[walrusgumble]

how did they get to ireland then? know many plane routes that go direct from ireland to e.g. nigeria or china without stopping? that is what the minister means that is all. the irish language requirement, be very unfair asking adults to learn the language. but some eastern countries have that requirement

Agreed with your point of view on people coming from UK.

But, do you think new Justice Minister will speed up processing times for Citizenship, as he is clearly stating that current processing times are unacceptable.

if he has co-operation with the civil servants then it might be possible. brian is one of them dynamic kind of guys. immigration is an important issue which will need to be addressed so who knows he might do something effective. what one has to understand, is that he has to carry the can for the failures of the previous two ministers who did feck all in this area. there is a massive backlodge to be dealt with. but i do feel he is the right man for the job. the last thing he will want to be responsible for is his department being taken to europe over an issue such as delay as it would bring great embarrassment to this country before the eyes of europe

[mktsoi]

Important points by Minister on citizenship:

1) English & Irish language test
2) Minister accepted delays in processing of citizenship applications
3) Citizenship is not something that we can simply confer on the basis of period of residency
4) when people look at non-EU nationals in Ireland, many of them come from the UK

I don't think many of non-EU nationals in Ireland are from UK. It could be other way around.

I expect certain changes in Citizenship application process as you can note that "Minister has already asked officials to look at core concept of Irishness and linguistic competency".

how did they get to ireland then? know many plane routes that go direct from ireland to e.g. nigeria or china without stopping? that is what the minister means that is all. the irish language requirement, be very unfair asking adults to learn the language. but some eastern countries have that requirement

guys, it is so hard not to lough about ireland. i have irish friends but if i try to tell them about the immigraion services here. they would never understand, but they comlaining about the illegal irish in america should be made legal, how nice huh. they never thought about ireland is doing good now. immigrants are part of the reason. if it was not the immigrants, would they have enough people to work in the shop that irish people dont want to work in? would they have enough nurses and doctors in the hospital? everyone knows the answer apart from the irish. all they think of is the economy is doing good and the immigrants just here to get their money but would they even think of the immigrants are doing ireland some good? i guess not huh.

it is true that if anyone wants things to happen in ireland. you should get the british do it first then couple of years down the road, the irish will copy it and try to do it but it will never do it right. i would not say i can speak english very good but i think i am better then some of the irish guys in dublin. the british government introduced the language requirements for the new immigrants sometime ago. now the minister in ireland is talking about it, so does it mean that they going to bring it in?? i guess everyone knows the answer of it. the processing time for citizenship applicaiton is longer then enough. if they added the language test on top of it without providing more resources into the immigration service, i guess we better off just live on the temporary visa status instead of applying for citizenship. at least we know how long it takes to get the GNIB card!

i agreed with some of the messages from this subject, but one thing i must say. the new minister is an IDIOT, thats true and if anyone wants to argue with me. go ahead. he said home office in dublin. walrusgumble
said the minister is referring the home office in the british embassy in dublin. the minister could have just said british embassy. i guess the minister himself might have a british passport. he could have been in the home office inside the british embassy applied for passport hahaha, that might be why he referring home office instead of the british embassy. i guess i should give the guy some credit. at least he admitted the time to process the citizenship application is not acceptable and confer for the citizenship is an important thing. i do agree with him for the 2 points he mentioned. i never agree to just hand out passport to people. i was wondering. what the fxxx did he mean by conferring the citizenship is important. may be he thinks the people spending five years of their working life in ireland working(plus the abuses from the immigration) is not important at all? so five years of waiting is not important enough, so then they ask people to wait for another 5 years for them to process and the INIS can talk to people around for another five years or more since all the guys waiting for the citizenship application process still living on some sort of visa or temporary status. thats very nice!!!!!

it took the dublin city council 11 years to plan and build the dublin port tunnel for solving the so call traffic problem in dublin. 2 months after the port tunnel finished, the dublin city council suggested the dublin port should be moved to somewhere. hahahaha, what a project they have. why dont they just move the port in the first place instead of building the tunnel. same about the minister for the immigration issue. i dont know how long it took him to realize the processing time for citizenship application is not acceptable, but i am sure it will take him much longer to figure out how to increase the resources to help the application process time! by the time he realized that. it could be next general election and he might not even in the parliment again because the present government might lose the election, so new minister comes in. nice huh.

here is a joke one of my irish coworker told me. he said. the only differences between the british and irish prime minister is, the british prime minister has his magic touch on the nuclear missile button, the irish prime minister has his magic touch on your wallet and he can open it to take your money away heheheheh.

i would like to say, the new minister for justice has the power to change all the bad immigration practices in ireland but does he want to change it. we will find out soon enough, he could be just another macdowell and all talk.

i know some of the people might not agree with what i have said here, but lets face the fact. no one happy with the irish immigration services? is there?

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

immigrants need to have Irish language competence?
Half of the Irish don't know how to speak Gaelic.

I get TG4, i see them falling over every word, wishing they could just say it in english.

Pretty funny though, being required to speak a language only 1.8 million speak in the whole wide world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language)

[mktsoi]

immigrants need to have Irish language competence?
Half of the Irish don't know how to speak Gaelic.

I get TG4, i see them falling over every word, wishing they could just say it in english.

Pretty funny though, being required to speak a language only 1.8 million speak in the whole wide world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language)

1.8 million in the world? i dont know where you got that figure but certainly if you count my irish friends in i mean those who can say few basic words in gaelic. you will have the 1.8 million.

it is great that the head of state in ireland dont even talk to their people in irish but the immigrant has to learn it huh!

[walrusgumble]

immigrants need to have Irish language competence?
Half of the Irish don't know how to speak Gaelic.

I get TG4, i see them falling over every word, wishing they could just say it in english.

Pretty funny though, being required to speak a language only 1.8 million speak in the whole wide world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language)

1.8 million in the world? i dont know where you got that figure but certainly if you count my irish friends in i mean those who can say few basic words in gaelic. you will have the 1.8 million.

it is great that the head of state in ireland dont even talk to their people in irish but the immigrant has to learn it huh!

road signs are in irish. go the gaeltachts in meath,galway donegal, kerry and cork (makes up a good hundred thousand). they all speak irish exclusively. st patricks day mass is spoken in irish and seachtáin na gaeilge is promoted during that week. the text of our constitution is in both irish and english. if there is ambuitity between phrases in the text, the irish (gaeilge) version is given priority. then there is the G.A.A. by the way our uachtarann na héireann (head of state/president) always starts a speech in as gaeilge. 1.8 million counts as irish is compulsory in most schools. if you want to sit solicitor exams you must pass the irish test. where irish is compulsory in national schools run by religious orders or the state children regardless of nationality under who start in baby infants must take irish classes. whyshould people be conferred citizenship in any country without knowing something about that country's history and culture? once one leaves this state they are representing their country as citizens,sounds odd when a yank comes up asking you, as an irish citizen something about this country and you lucking clueless.

please do not take this as a rant against you, i happen to be passionate about the language. i do feel its unfair that an adult would be expected to learn irish to be conferred citizenship. but imagine if it was your country, would you wish to see immigrants take in some of your culture so long as the nationals embrace, tolerate and accept your culture?

the reason for its decline was because of mass immigration in the 1880-1980's, the fact if you want an decent economy english is the spoken language. ( famine,war, persecution, troubles in the north, bad economy)

i really doubt adults of a certain age will be required to do irish tests. sounds way to unfair and a tad bit discrimative. the school going children will probably be required. check up article 9 of the constitution and the premable, the role of the irish citizen is to swear loyalty and fidelity to the nation and continue promoting irish culture and identity (possible arguments for such requirements). the irish language is one of few things that seperate us from the english nation. the retention and promotion of the language is there to ensure irish nationality and identity will not be lost. one person mentioned a dubliner with bad english. ha. did you not know the dubs/jackeens not speak their own native language?

the english language requirement seems fair enough to both you and the state. what about when you start working? do you want to be left in the dark when you cant communicate to the locals (fair enouh you will notice for a small country the accents vary greatly and many are impossible to understand)

[mktsoi]

immigrants need to have Irish language competence?
Half of the Irish don't know how to speak Gaelic.

I get TG4, i see them falling over every word, wishing they could just say it in english.

Pretty funny though, being required to speak a language only 1.8 million speak in the whole wide world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language)

1.8 million in the world? i dont know where you got that figure but certainly if you count my irish friends in i mean those who can say few basic words in gaelic. you will have the 1.8 million.

it is great that the head of state in ireland dont even talk to their people in irish but the immigrant has to learn it huh!

road signs are in irish. go the gaeltachts in meath,galway donegal, kerry and cork (makes up a good hundred thousand). they all speak irish exclusively. st patricks day mass is spoken in irish and seachtáin na gaeilge is promoted during that week. the text of our constitution is in both irish and english. if there is ambuitity between phrases in the text, the irish (gaeilge) version is given priority. by the way our uachtarann na héireann always starts a speech in as gaeilge. 1.8 million counts as irish is compulsory in most schools. if you want to sit solicitor exams you must pass the irish test. where irish is compulsory in national schools run by religious orders or the state children regardless of nationality under who start in baby infants must take irish classes.

the reason for its decline was because of mass immigration in the 1880-1980's, the fact if you want an decent economy english is the spoken language.

i really doubt adults of a certain age will be required to do irish tests. sounds way to unfair and a tad bit indiscrimative. the school going children will probably be required. check up article 9 of the constitution and the premable, the role of the irish citizen is to swear loyalty and fidelity to the nation and continue promoting irish culture and identity. the irish language is one of few things that seperate us from the english nation. the retention and promotion of the language is there to ensure irish nationality and identity will not be lost. one person mentioned a dubliner with bad english. ha. did you not know the dubs/jackeens not speak their own native language?

sure, road signs are in irish. there are some road speed sign still in imperial system as well. tough guy, why dont you write to the dail and ask those greedy politicans to speak in irish and do the translation in english instead.

i wouldnt mind to learn irish even if i am 70 as long as those idiots up in the dail can speak it themself.

[microlab]

ANOTHER THREAD IS TURNING INTO COMPLEATE B¬¬¬CKS.

[walrusgumble]

immigrants need to have Irish language competence?
Half of the Irish don't know how to speak Gaelic.

I get TG4, i see them falling over every word, wishing they could just say it in english.

Pretty funny though, being required to speak a language only 1.8 million speak in the whole wide world.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language)

1.8 million in the world? i dont know where you got that figure but certainly if you count my irish friends in i mean those who can say few basic words in gaelic. you will have the 1.8 million.

it is great that the head of state in ireland dont even talk to their people in irish but the immigrant has to learn it huh!

road signs are in irish. go the gaeltachts in meath,galway donegal, kerry and cork (makes up a good hundred thousand). they all speak irish exclusively. st patricks day mass is spoken in irish and seachtáin na gaeilge is promoted during that week. the text of our constitution is in both irish and english. if there is ambuitity between phrases in the text, the irish (gaeilge) version is given priority. by the way our uachtarann na héireann always starts a speech in as gaeilge. 1.8 million counts as irish is compulsory in most schools. if you want to sit solicitor exams you must pass the irish test. where irish is compulsory in national schools run by religious orders or the state children regardless of nationality under who start in baby infants must take irish classes.

the reason for its decline was because of mass immigration in the 1880-1980's, the fact if you want an decent economy english is the spoken language.

i really doubt adults of a certain age will be required to do irish tests. sounds way to unfair and a tad bit indiscrimative. the school going children will probably be required. check up article 9 of the constitution and the premable, the role of the irish citizen is to swear loyalty and fidelity to the nation and continue promoting irish culture and identity. the irish language is one of few things that seperate us from the english nation. the retention and promotion of the language is there to ensure irish nationality and identity will not be lost. one person mentioned a dubliner with bad english. ha. did you not know the dubs/jackeens not speak their own native language?

sure, road signs are in irish. there are some road speed sign still in imperial system as well. tough guy, why dont you write to the dail and ask those greedy politicans to speak in irish and do the translation in english instead.

i wouldnt mind to learn irish even if i am 70 as long as those idiots up in the dail can speak it themself.

céard tu ag caint? amádan. i said road signs are in irish and a list of other things that remain in irish. tough guy? i could see you would get really far in a local with that attitude. why so touchy? i explained pretty clearly that i was not attacking your stance just explaining what the reasons for these proposals to give reasonable minded people an understanding of why there needed. if you dont wish to apply for citizenship, just apply for permanent long term residency.

just a response to someone who thinks irish is completely irrelevant in some parts and to state the fact that irish version of the constitution is given priority of the english version (example of irish being relevant). you must think this country is the only country who actually requires an applicant for citizenship to be able to have the basic ability to speak the national language. in other countries you are required to know the countries history and national anthem.

i understand your point of view, but most td's are well capable of speaking irish. getting td to do translations? do you know how much money that would cost? sure them feckers are barely ever in the dail chambers, maybe the dail bar but there have not being too many packed out dail sessions in a while. also some td's are not from the nationalist background. one or two actually have family anchestors/connections with unionism.

[joesoap101]

Bertie Ahern was trying to speak Irish in the Dail the other day and made a complete mess of it, had to pause for ages and read his script.

The Irish language is just about dead. People in the gaeltacht most definitely don’t speak Irish exclusively, that’s just a load of bollocks and everyone knows it!

Didn’t you watch the series of the TG4 reporter travelling through Ireland trying to speak only Irish? Well he was treated with hostility in most places, he was in the depths of the gaeltacht and people didn’t understand him.... I know its hard to accept but the Irish people are not interested in keeping the language alive- compulsory Irish forced by the government is a desperate attempt that will ultimately be futile.
Finally, Mary McAleese, the president of Ireland, is actually a British Citizen (obviously in addition to being an Irish citizen).

[runie80]

I suggest Irish Immigration Minister to learn different between "Embassy" and "Home Office".

dosent matter how anyone paints it these are two seperate entities.one working under the supervision of the other.

[stmani]

but i dont understand!!! what all these to do with our EU1 case....

we wouldnt have to learn irish language for EU1 approval, would we?

the minister (whatever his name is) didnt mention anything about EU1 applications which have become a total disaster........

i think dail or whatever not taking it serious enough!!!!

[walrusgumble]

Bertie Ahern was trying to speak Irish in the Dail the other day and made a complete mess of it, had to pause for ages and read his script

Bertie can barely speak english never mind irish.

Didn’t you watch the series of the TG4 reporter travelling through Ireland trying to speak only Irish? Well he was treated with hostility in most places, he was in the depths of the gaeltacht and people didn’t understand him....

Like any other country with their national language, each area in ireland have their own different dialect, be it connamara/connacht irish, ulster irish and munster irish

Finally, Mary McAleese, the president of Ireland, is actually a British Citizen (obviously in addition to being an Irish citizen).

british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth, dont go whinging cause ye dont have it. maybe ye should understand this countries history before forking out a bit of money and waiting 5 years before getting yours. i would love if you had the balls to say that in a nationalist area in northern ireland. you wanna check out was articles 2 and 3 of the constitution and section 6 of inc act 1956-2004 before ya come out with that guff.so no she is not legally or politically a british citizen or nor was she ever.

[walrusgumble]

Bertie Ahern was trying to speak Irish in the Dail the other day and made a complete mess of it, had to pause for ages and read his script

Didn’t you watch the series of the TG4 reporter travelling through Ireland trying to speak only Irish? Well he was treated with hostility in most places, he was in the depths of the gaeltacht and people didn’t understand him....


Finally, Mary McAleese, the president of Ireland, is actually a British Citizen (obviously in addition to being an Irish citizen).

Like any other country with their national language, each area in ireland have their own different dialect, be it connamara/connacht irish, ulster irish and munster irish. sure bertie can barely speak english never mind irish.

british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport), entitled from birth,maybe ye should understand this countries history before raving that politicaly incorrect term. i would love to see if you had the balls to say that in a nationalist area in northern ireland. you wanna check out was articles 2 and 3 of the constitution and section 6 of inc act 1956-2004 before ya come out with that guff.so no she is not legally or politically a british citizen or nor was she ever.

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

The irish language is a major part of Irish culture and will not die anytime soon. Although it will never become the first language in this country either. Ireland is a new country which only recently has its independence. Only very recently it is economically independent of it's big brother and can now start to build up its own country. Their are still a lot of English influences here and I hope they will die down over time. (why can't we watch the Ere Divisie, or the Primera Division instead of the premier league all the time?)

But that doesn't take away that the new minister of justice used it as an easy way to get popular votes. The reason for teaching immigrants irish might well have come from the netherlands where it is mandatory now to learn dutch in 3 years, or 5 years if you're from a industrialized country.
The reason was that you can't get a low-income job if you don't speak dutch. You can't be a waitress, taxi-driver, etc. etc. As a result, a lot of immigrants where at home doing nothing.

However, dutch is spoken everywhere (in NL) as a first language, not like Irish, which really isn't used that much. You don't need irish to live and work here. Being able to Translate a couple of Irish roadsigns does not constitute learning a language for me.

[mktsoi]

The irish language is a major part of Irish culture and will not die anytime soon. Although it will never become the first language in this country either. Ireland is a new country which only recently has its independence. Only very recently it is economically independent of it's big brother and can now start to build up its own country. Their are still a lot of English influences here and I hope they will die down over time. (why can't we watch the Ere Divisie, or the Primera Division instead of the premier league all the time?)

But that doesn't take away that the new minister of justice used it as an easy way to get popular votes. The reason for teaching immigrants irish might well have come from the netherlands where it is mandatory now to learn dutch in 3 years, or 5 years if you're from a industrialized country.
The reason was that you can't get a low-income job if you don't speak dutch. You can't be a waitress, taxi-driver, etc. etc. As a result, a lot of immigrants where at home doing nothing.

However, dutch is spoken everywhere (in NL) as a first language, not like Irish, which really isn't used that much. You don't need irish to live and work here. Being able to Translate a couple of Irish roadsigns does not constitute learning a language for me.

the irish doesnt want to speak it themself. you think it is good to impose it in the new immigrants? like i mentioned before. the head of the government should set an example themself. they should do it in the parliment to start with but of course. they cant do it themself. what a joke. look at canada. not all the canadians are biligual but at least the head of the government is biligual. the prime minister of canada is not like the mikey mouse prime minister here. he/she can have a television interview in french or english no problem. and when the canadian government issued something. it is publish in french and english together. not like here, first work(e.g hello) of the letter is in irish then the rest of the letter is in english. they cant even publish the address in irish and english together.

just ask the people in this forum, let say if the dumb fxxx irish governement can improve the citizenship application time like say 6 months or a year to finish a citizenship application and with a condition that applicant has to learn irish language. i bet you loads of people willing to do that.

they have alot more immigrants in australia. the australian government published that average takes about 90 days to process a citizenship application. hey, people in australia has to do language and citizenship test as well. how come so fast down in australia.

look, here is the fact. if i started to learn irish today, by the time i become fluent in irish, i bet you dept of justice still have my citizneship application sitting under some idiot coffee mug in dept of justice. haha

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

the irish doesnt want to speak it themself. you think it is good to impose it in the new immigrants?

Euh, no, I disagree with the minister. Did you read my message?

[mktsoi]

the irish doesnt want to speak it themself. you think it is good to impose it in the new immigrants?

Euh, no, I disagree with the minister. Did you read my message?

actually, since your an american. one more thing i would like to mention. ireland is not economically independent from it's big brother(S). may be they getting less money from the british now. but ireland getting alots of money from the us firms. so they not economically independent, plus they got lots of grant from EU. the irish governement are suckers. they sucking up from the american government now. i tell you what. the IRS in states just turning a blind eyes about the us firms in ireland. if the IRS wants their money back, most of the us firms might pull out. good time will be over for ireland certainly, plus the EU doesnt want to hand out as much as used to be, soooo the economy is going to dive at some stage here.

you married to a dutch man, by law, your legal in this country, and they cant even give you a legal status quickly? dont you even feel the american deport all the illegal irish instead? they are over there illegaly working and bagging this and that, saying that the american government should make them legal or even give them american citizenship straight away. and your are legal here by the EU law, and they cant even do something? how nice how nice, we all love ireland dont we:)))))))))))))))