Freelance Work

[roger64]

I cannot find a definitive answer to this anywhere - does anyone know please?

If someone is going to the UK on a fiancee visa and they currently work freelance online for someone in America is it ok to do a small amount of work, unpaid, in order to keep the contract open? The reason is simply to keep the position, so that once the marriage has taken place they can go back to working for them? The reason I say unpaid, is because I assume anything paid is not allowed? Even if it's in another country and another currency?

[Rayking]

If your work is in US what will stop you not doing that?you've been doing it b4 you got here and it's as you've stated.

[Wanderer]

I cannot find a definitive answer to this anywhere - does anyone know please?

If someone is going to the UK on a fiancee visa and they currently work freelance online for someone in America is it ok to do a small amount of work, unpaid, in order to keep the contract open? The reason is simply to keep the position, so that once the marriage has taken place they can go back to working for them? The reason I say unpaid, is because I assume anything paid is not allowed? Even if it's in another country and another currency?

Any work, paid or unpaid is considered work.

Whether the UKVI/HMRC find out is up to how sure you are that you'll get away with it, and whether you do it is up to your conscience, it would be illegal mind.

[Wanderer]

If your work is in US what will stop you not doing that?you've been doing it b4 you got here and it's as you've stated.

I assumed the OP meant remotely, from UK - could be wrong though. Maybe the OP can clarify.

[roger64]

Even if it's a small amount of work and it's unpaid? Can you direct me to the rules on this please as I can't find them anywhere.

Yes, remotely, from UK. Unpaid.

[Rayking]

So you mean if I'm on holiday in UK and I've got to do some work online that has to do with my job from my country that's illegal?I don't believe that and my answer to the op is along this line.

[Wanderer]

Even if it's a small amount of work and it's unpaid? Can you direct me to the rules on this please as I can't find them anywhere.

Yes, remotely, from UK. Unpaid.

http://www.spammer.com/uk/fiance-visa.aspx

Successful applicants are granted a 6 month visa in which to come to the UK and get married. They are not allowed to work while on this visa.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=74996.0

Unfortunately, all work is forbidden on a fiance visa.

This includes paid or unpaid work; actual employment, internship or just simple volunteer work; work for a UK company or remotely for a US company; and in-person or online work on the internet.

[roger64]

But is it even 'work' if it's unpaid? What defines work from helping someone out? There must be clear guidelines on this somewhere but I can't find them. If I was to say 'I can't work for you for the next 6 months but I can help you out if you get stuck (for free)' - how is this still 'work'?

[Wanderer]

So you mean if I'm on holiday in UK and I've got to do some work online that has to do with my job from my country that's illegal?I don't believe that and my answer to the op is along this line.

I tend to agree it's a grey area, and I've done remote work in Russia when I've had to on a Russian visit visa with no Russian Work Permit. That's on hols tho - OP is intending to settle and for me the rules are clear and with that intent and the attitude of the UKVI I personally would make sure I toed the line implicitly.

[Wanderer]

But is it even 'work' if it's unpaid? What defines work from helping someone out? There must be clear guidelines on this somewhere but I can't find them. If I was to say 'I can't work for you for the next 6 months but I can help you out if you get stuck (for free)' - how is this still 'work'?

Like I said originally, it's down to your conscience/likelihood of getting caught....

I think it's clear that the UKVI consider all work as work whether paid or unpaid or favour in return.

[Rayking]

May be the op should clarify if it's online job here in UK or what's he's been doing in US? If it's UK,I'll assume he knows what the answer is.
I thought he meant the job he does in US,I believe some do work from home at times (online)

[roger64]

To clarify - the person is from a different country entirely - does freelance work for people, one of which is in America. He doesn't want to lose this one contract, so as a way of keeping it open he wondered if he could do the bare minimum (a few hours a week) for no salary, from the UK. Then once he has FLR he can pick it up again and work for them like before.

[Wanderer]

To clarify - the person is from a different country entirely - does freelance work for people, one of which is in America. He doesn't want to lose this one contract, so as a way of keeping it open he wondered if he could do the bare minimum (a few hours a week) for no salary, from the UK. Then once he has FLR he can pick it up again and work for them like before.

The rules say 'no work' and work is work. If you are unclear call the UKVI ask them and get it in writing, don't rely on telephone conversations but I'm sure what I've said is correct.

[Obie]

The purpose of the rules is to prevent a visitor or illegal entrant from displacing a local work force.

It will be utterly absurd for UKBA to suggest that a person who is on holiday, who undertook work for her overseas company online, who is not working for a UK company, fall foul of those rules.

[Wanderer]

The purpose of the rules is to prevent a visitor or illegal entrant from displacing a local work force.

It will be utterly absurd for UKBA to suggest that a person who is on holiday, who undertook work for her overseas company online, who is not working for a UK company, fall foul of those rules.

OP (or OP's proxy) is not on holiday though, is (or will be) on a fiancé visa. Additionally same is freelance, i.e. running a business whilst on said visa. Different animal.

[Rayking]

There's no point stressing yourself about this,you won't be breaking any law and personally I don't see any requirement to state you've worked except you strongly believe you have.
The law does not state you should close down your business or job abroad because you're coming to live Britain.

[Obie]

Wanderer I still believe it will not go against the letter or the spirit of the conditions attached to the visa issued.

It is none of the UK's business what the OP's wife does in the secret of their homes.

She is not taking job from UK citizens, or displacing its local work force from the job market.

The employer is overseas.

The Only thing he/she will be doing is benefit the UK economy, by paying an internet fee, from which the provider will pay tak, from which the British dole recepient can receive their doles.

[roger64]

You see this is the problem. I don't believe that it can be such a grey area - there must be hard and fast rules about it somewhere.

[Obie]

41.

(iii)does not intend to take employment in the United Kingdom; and

(iv)does not intend to produce goods or provide services
within the United Kingdom,including the selling of goods or services direct to members of the public; and

The above will inform the decision below.

Section D-ECP: Decision on application for entry clearance as a partner
D-ECP.1.1. If the applicant meets the requirements for entry clearance as a partner the
applicant will be granted entry clearance for an initial period not exceeding 33 months, and
subject to a condition of no recourse to public funds; or, where the applicant is a fiancé(e) or
proposed civil partner, the applicant will be granted entry clearance for a period not exceeding 6
months, and subject to a condition of no recourse to public funds and a prohibition on
employment.

I am of the view that there is no grey area.

[roger64]

Well it clearly isn't 'taking employment in the UK' but is it 'providing a service within the UK'? The providing of the service is being done IN the UK but it's being provided TO someone out of the UK. That to me is a grey area

[MPH80]

Let me twist it around - my company uses offshore resources. They provide services exclusively to my company, are employed by us and service only our UK based clients. Are they working in their country? Yes - of course they are.

You're no different - you're an off shore resource - the only difference is they are being paid.

[Rayking]

I don't think the client is UK base.
Are you saying one needs to close down a business or not deal with a customer if one lives in another country before moving to UK?
He hasn't said it's a company either,just someone he deals with.

[roger64]

It isn't exclusive, it isn't employment, it isn't UK based and it isn't paid, so it doesn't really match your example.

Where do you draw the line with what is 'working' and what isn't, if it's unpaid? If he mowed next door's lawn for his elderly neighbour - is that illegal? If he helped an old lady with her shopping - is that illegal? I guess the fact that he worked for them before and will work for them again may classify it as 'work' even though it's unpaid.

I would still like more clarification though. It's basically voluntary work for someone in another country. Voluntary work in the UK isn't allowed, yes, but where does it say that the same rules apply if it's someone abroad?

[Obie]

Well 41(iV) is not applicable to Appendix FM anyway. It is 3 that is applicable.

41(iii) informs the decision in appendix FM.

Again the language in Appendix read in accordance with 41(iii) has no grey area.

[roger64]

Obie, sorry, I don't understand that. Are you saying it's ok or it isn't ok?