Naturalisation Refused

[samir10]

I applied in July and got letter back now saying your application has been refused becuase of traffic conviction.

I have been fined £60+£60+3points for not displaying L plate and speeding and yes that was in court.

Is there anything i can do , or Judcial Review is the last option as i am not convinced they have acted lawfully.

Any expereince similar to this ?

[Mr Rusty]

Interesting.

Did you declare it on your application?
How long ago were the convictions?
Have you written to them to ask why two such allegedly minor offences are sufficient to justify a decision that you are not "of good character"? There is no right of appeal but their website says you are entitled to ask them to justify their decision and say why it is wrong.

[tech]

If it is given in your court, then it should be spent before you can apply for naturalisation. Did you declare them in the form ? Anything given in court must be declared unless that was spent.

You need give more details about when this has happened and full details of the incident to get some suggestions.

The only way to challenge this, the offenece has been already spent and that was not taken into consideration while making the decision.

[samir10]

Interesting.

Did you declare it on your application?
How long ago were the convictions?
Have you written to them to ask why two such allegedly minor offences are sufficient to justify a decision that you are not "of good character"? There is no right of appeal but their website says you are entitled to ask them to justify their decision and say why it is wrong.

Yes of course i have declared that. I wrote them with case worker guidllines and also sent them my Disclosure Scotland clearly shows no conviction ,no warning , no caution or anything whatsoever.

But this minor conviction which is even not recordable was basis of their decision

My basis was them to consider my case under "case worker guidlines for good character" where 3..3.2 which clearly tells case workers to ignore minor unspent convictions where applicant is good by all standards.

I am confidant that again excessive beaurocratic power ( i would say unlawful as well) been used by case worker and a Judicial review can settle this.

Has anyone been through judicial review or anyone can help me going forward.

[newperson]

I am confidant that again excessive beaurocratic power ( i would say unlawful as well) been used by case worker and a Judicial review can settle this.

Has anyone been through judicial review or anyone can help me going forward.

I fear that a JR would be a complete waste of time for you. Naturalisation decisions in the UK under Section 6(1) may perhaps be one of the most opaque processes in the country. These decisions are literally at the discretion of the Home Secretary. Even if you meet the legal requirements, if s/he doesn't like you for whatever reason, you don't get naturalised. Simple as that. It's at his/her whim. That's what "discretion" means.

Talk to a solicitor about a JR if you like, but just be realistic. If Harrod's owner Mohamed al-Fayed can't get naturalised with all his clout and connections, it sort of underlines what "discretion" is all about.

[John]

Is there anything i can do

Yes, wait until the convictions are spent, and then reapply.

You have already been asked about the date of the convictions, but have not replied. So again, when was that?

[samir10]

Is there anything i can do

You have already been asked about the date of the convictions, but have not replied. So again, when was that?

Oct 07. That may put me under new rules as well.

[supercreature]

Guys,

How much time is required in between to consider such minor conviction as spent?

[John]

How much time is required in between to consider such minor conviction as spent?

One looks at the sentence imposed. As a fine was imposed, we are talking about the convictions becoming spent 5 years .... after the date of conviction ... not the date the offenses were committed.

[dr_raihan29]

hi there guys a bit off topic and my apologies for that but may I ask you what happens if somebody has a police caution(given at a police station not at court) for fight with ones wife? As far as I know cautions never become spent and does this mean that person(me in this case) can never apply for naturalization?

[John]

Cautions? That is not actually a conviction so from the naturalisation angle, there is nothing to worry about.

Obviously what I am just about to write does not apply to you, but the only exception regarding cautions relates to s e x offences, and there even a caution ends up on the S e x Offenders Register. Being on the register, even through just a caution, could well cause problems as regards a naturalisation application.

[winber]

So have I understood this correctly, if I get a speeding ticket, I can't get naturalised for 5 years? Is it the same for a parking ticket?

Are the rules the same for ILR?

I feel scared to drive now!

[tech]

"You must give details of all unspent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court". You must include all drink-driving offences. An explanation of unspent convictions is given below.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/

Hope this helps

[dr_raihan29]

interesting link tech:

so basically in this link it say why the OP was not given naturalization
"Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified are also not minor offences."

not displaying a L plate where needed is = driving uninsured thats why probably they didnt disregard the offence. Initially when i failed 4 times my practical test I was tempted to just continue driving on my international licence and not displaying L plate(beyond a year), thank God I didnt take the risk and finally passed the 5th time!

[winber]

Interesting. So you don't have to declare fixed penalty notices.

Looking at this link, not displaying L plates is a fixed penalty notice:
http://www.psni.police.uk/index/advice- ... _codes.htm

That is for Northern Ireland, but I'd be surprised if it was different for England.

So I think the lesson here is, don't declare anything you don't have to. Otherwise the Home Office may become confused and think you have declared it because you have to, and because offences that have to be declared are bad, they might jump to a conclusion without proper consideration.

[dr_raihan29]

you have got it wrong winber.........L plate might be itself fixed penalty.........but driving without L plate when u need to means you r driving unlicenced and that automatically invalidates ur insurance WHICH is a non-minor offence so indirectly the OP commited a major offence and got his application refused

[Sten]

I have been fined £60+£60+3points for not displaying L plate and speeding and yes that was in court.

This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court".

Simples.

So the lesson here is - study UKBA guides before applying.

And another one - if you get fined, do not let it go to court, simply pay what they ask if you plan to apply for ILR/BC in future ..

[hari15]

I have been fined £60+£60+3points for not displaying L plate and speeding and yes that was in court.

This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court".

Simples.

So the lesson here is - study UKBA guides before applying.

And another one - if you get fined, do not let it go to court, simply pay what they ask if you plan to apply for ILR/BC in future ..

Good point sten.

Does this means that Going to court or not is the option to one who did this traffic offense? Or is it police to decide?

I still havent got license (failed 8 times practical test for some minor reasons each time). and not having car still going by local bus only

But I am highly tempted to buy a car before getting license and then to appear for test with my own car.

I need to apply for BC next year.

Just wanted to know if we pay the full penalty will it help in these kind of situiations?

Anyway I am now more scared to buy the car before getting license

[Sten]

Does this means that Going to court or not is the option to one who did this traffic offense? Or is it police to decide?

Obviously not. If it goes to court = you have to declare it even if it was a fixed penalty.

But you do not always have this choice. For example, if you get a speeding ticket while driving on a foreign licence, they can not put points there, so it goes to court automatically. Also if you exceed the speed limit by more than 20mph (if I remember this figure correctly) it also goes to court by default. I expect there are other scenarios that lead to court without an option to pay fine and close the case.

So my advice would be: if you drive here - get a UK licence and drive carefully, if you have commited a minor traffic offence - do not argue, try to settle it outside of court, just pay what they ask.

[SOJOURNER]

i just got a car last week, because i thought it would give me something to work on... learning how to drive manual, and passing the test, but now im thinking that i will just sell the car once i pass my test because i dont want to take any chances of a traffic violation affecting my naturalisation. i thought that having a car would be good for holidays when there is no public transport, and also getting to know britain a little better, but now im thinking i better just take a taxi. i still cant get used to these round abouts. they are so confusing.

[Sky_High]

Oh Dear

U do not need to worry. If you do not live in London than you must have a car. Thats what I see. Just try to be careful. Do not drive without MOT and insurance. Do not drive above the speed limit. No drink driving etc . You will be fine.

[melo75]

"You must give details of all unspent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court". You must include all drink-driving offences. An explanation of unspent convictions is given below.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/

Hope this helps

What is the difference between "declare" and "give details"? I had a speeding ticket fine that I challenged in court (but lost) in the USA 8 years ago. Do I have to tick the "YES" box when it asks if I ever had a convition?

[alexsh1]

"You must give details of all unspent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court". You must include all drink-driving offences. An explanation of unspent convictions is given below.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/

Hope this helps

What is the difference between "declare" and "give details"? I had a speeding ticket fine that I challenged in court (but lost) in the USA 8 years ago. Do I have to tick the "YES" box when it asks if I ever had a convition?

I am sure UKBA are not interested in your USA fine. They are interested in you appearing in the court in the UK

[melo75]

"You must give details of all unspent criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences but not fixed penalty notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) unless they were given in court". You must include all drink-driving offences. An explanation of unspent convictions is given below.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... character/

Hope this helps

What is the difference between "declare" and "give details"? I had a speeding ticket fine that I challenged in court (but lost) in the USA 8 years ago. Do I have to tick the "YES" box when it asks if I ever had a convition?

I am sure UKBA are not interested in your USA fine. They are interested in you appearing in the court in the UK

Thanks Alexsh1. I also thought the same but the problem is the question (3.6 in naturalisation and 7.1 in ILR) clearly asks for "the UK and other countries", hence is my dilemma of what exactly I need to answer there.....YES or NO?

[John]

I had a speeding ticket fine that I challenged in court (but lost) in the USA 8 years ago.

That being the case, under UK law, as far as the UK is concerned, that conviction is "spent" after 5 years .... a fine imposed = 5 year period.

As the application form AN says "Convictions spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 need not be disclosed", there is of course no need to mention that conviction.