child born in germany

[john1978]

hi to all please we need your advice , i am helping my friend in here


that is question . child born in germany ,munchen on 12.2012 mother got swedish citizen , we undirstand mother can pass swedish citizen to her child ,but we want now if the child can get german citizenchip becouse born in here (father of the child aufenthal) unbefristet[/b]

[ca.funke]

Hi john1978,

welcome to the forum.

EDIT: My answer here was totally wrong - just deleting it so no-one gets incorrect information

Rgds, Christian

[john1978]

thanx ca fuunke ,but my cosin was in same probleam non of them has german citizen ship, and they baby was born and he got german citizen

[ca.funke]

...baby was born and he got german citizen...

You are right, sorry:

(3) Durch die Geburt im Inland erwirbt ein Kind ausländischer Eltern die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit, wenn ein Elternteil

1. seit acht Jahren rechtmäßig seinen gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt im Inland hat und
2. ein unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht (...) besitzt.

If minimum one parent has been legally residing in Germany for 8 years, and at the time of birth holds "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht", the child is automatically German!

As you say the father has "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht", for the mother being an EU-citizen this would be automatic after 8 years of residence. So it all depends on whether either of the parents spent more than 8 years in Germany.

If this is so they should get the nationality of the child registered ASAP, and apply for a passport to confirm the nationality! (See >>nationality vs. passport<<)

Rgds, Christian

[john1978]

thank you very much ca.funnke, one of my friends here say if your childs born as girl dose not get german citizen? but if your child born as boy then get german citizen? please reply is very importent this to now thank you very much .

[ca.funke]

Gender has no influence in German nationality law.
(there are exceptions where it´s unavoidable, but not in your case)

BTW: Please give feedback on how things go!

[john1978]

thank you very much ca.funnke we got it now

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The mother is Swedish. Does the baby have Swedish citizenship?

And what countries is the father a citizen of?

[john1978]

no child not apply yet for swedish pass , father is iraqi citizen thanx for reply

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

no child not apply yet for swedish pass , father is iraqi citizen thanx for reply

Remember there are two different things. Many babies are born with multiple citizenships. They may (or may not) ever bother to get a passport from the country.

My children for example!

[ca.funke]

...Does the baby have Swedish citizenship?...

no child not apply yet for swedish pass , father is iraqi citizen thanx for reply

Hi john1978,

I think you did not read the concept of >>nationality vs. passport<< yet.

According to what I think so far, the child probably already has Swedish and German and Iraqi nationalities!

What´s missing is the appropriate confirmation - in form of corresponding passports!

I would suggest obtaining a passport for all three nationalities, and/or renouncing unwanted citizenships. But why not keep all three? While Swedish/German doesn´t really make a difference, Iraq might at some time become a desirable place to live in... Hence -at some later stage- it might be handy to be an Iraqi citizen...

Rgds,
Christian

[john1978]

thank you diricteve and ca.funnke , yes i have read that , but father went the place call is kvr in germany and they told him your child can not get german citizen becouse he is marrid in 2005 so he is been in germany since 1998 but marrid in 2005 so they told him hes child not get german citizen ,

[ca.funke]

...father went the place call is kvr in germany...

Is KVR = "Kreisverwaltungsreferat"? I never heard of that, seems to be a Munich-speciality?!
http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Krei ... ngsreferat
(I didn´t check this link at all, hope it´s a reputable site?)

and they told him your child can not get german citizen becouse he is marrid in 2005 so he is been in germany since 1998 but marrid in 2005 so they told him hes child not get german citizen

So the father was in Germany since 1998, married the Swedish lady in Germany in 2005, both of whom have since lived in Germany without interruption?

Questions:

• When the father arrived in 1998, what status did he have?
• When did his status switch to "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht"?
• Since when was the mother living in Germany?

Plainly speaking, I think the "Kreisverwaltungsreferat"-folks are wrong, but then again, I´m not sure...

However, dear john1978, I advise you to be clear in this matter:

...so they told him hes child not get german citizen..

If I´m right the child wouldn´t need to "get" German nationality, it would already be German automatically!

On another note: Why do the parents want the child to be German so badly? If it´s already Swedish, a right to stay in Germany with the mum is more-less automatic and practically irrevocable...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Is KVR = "Kreisverwaltungsreferat"? I never heard of that, seems to be a Munich-speciality?!
http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Krei ... ngsreferat
(I didn´t check this link at all, hope it´s a reputable site?)

I am not sure it is Munich specific, but it is definitely the city office you go to do Anmeldung/Abmeldung and all immigration related stuff (EU and non EU).

And ToyTownGermany is decent a generally well run, though sometimes the information there is wrong (as with any site!).

[ca.funke]

Questions:

• When the father arrived in 1998, what status did he have?
• When did his status switch to "unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht"?
• Since when was the mother living in Germany?

It´ll all boil down to above questions:

• If the mother lived in Germany for 8 years before birth, the child is already German.
• If the father resided "legally" in Germany before they got married, the child is automatically German.
  • The father is automatically "legal" since the marriage in 2005. So it depends on the 1 year before 2005
  • "Duldung" would not suffice - it´s not considered "legal residence"
• I took the liberty to call the Ausländerbehörde in my hometown (Bonn). They said that usually the "Standesamt", where the birth is registered, routinely checks if the child is automatically German. As such they estimated that this case means that the father was on "Duldung" before marrying, and the mother moved to Germany in 2005.
  Nothing more can be said without knowing the exact details...

If the child is not automatically German, it can still obtain German citizenship later: Once the parents complete 8 years as per above (must happen within 2013 at the latest?!), they have a right to German citizenship (very few exceptions). Should one of the parents apply, the child can be included. Drawback: In this case the father (should he apply) and the child (if it´s included in the application) would have to renounce Iraqi citizenship (unless this is impossible by Iraqi standards). Swedish citizenship can be retained without additional bureaucracy, as it´s an EU-citizenship.

Rgds, Christian

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Swedish citizenship can be retained without additional bureaucracy, as it´s an EU-citizenship.

I think what is key is that
(1) Sweden is another EU member state
AND
(2) Sweden do not require EU citizens who naturalize to give up their existing EU citizenship

I know (1) is true but I do not know about (2)

[ca.funke]

...I do not know about (2)

Me neither. I somehow assumed that lately all non-dual-clauses concerning the EU have been removed. I know for sure Germany has

§ 25
(1) Ein Deutscher verliert seine Staatsangehörigkeit mit dem Erwerb einer ausländischen Staatsangehörigkeit(...). Der Verlust nach Satz 1 tritt nicht ein, wenn ein Deutscher die Staatsangehörigkeit eines anderen Mitgliedstaates der Europäischen Union (...oder...) der Schweiz (...) erwirbt(...).

§ 9
(1) Ehegatten oder Lebenspartner Deutscher sollen (...) eingebürgert werden, wenn

1. sie ihre bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit verlieren oder aufgeben oder ein Grund für die Hinnahme von Mehrstaatigkeit nach Maßgabe von § 12 vorliegt(...)

§ 10
(1) Ein Ausländer (...) ist auf Antrag einzubürgern, wenn er
(...)
4. seine bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit aufgibt oder verliert,
(...)

§ 12
(...)
(2) Von der Voraussetzung des § 10 Abs. 1 Satz 1 Nr. 4 wird (...) abgesehen, wenn der Ausländer die Staatsangehörigkeit eines anderen Mitgliedstaates der Europäischen Union oder der Schweiz besitzt.
(...)

but I don´t know about other countries.

[Jambo]

Sweden allows dual nationality (any second one, not just EU) since 2001. This is for nationality gained by application. If the additional citizenship was obtained from birth, then this was always allowed.

[Clive_F]

Hi there people
First of all, sorry to hijack this thread.

I have been viewing this thread with interest, but for a different reason, which will become clear later.

Can anybody answer me this please.

This person was born in Germany, their Father is German and Mother is from Sweden, but this person has a Russian Passport, which I have seen showing their photo.

Code: Select all

 As stated by ca.funke;
•If the father resided "legally" in Germany before they got married, the child is automatically German.

The reason why I ask this question is this person is on a dating site and certain facts do not tally up.

Any help please would be much appreciated.

Cheers

[CR001]

What is your actual question about?

People often tell untruths about themselves on dating sites, suggest you raise the complaint there.

[Clive_F]

Sorry, I missed off the question

Can this person have a Russian Passport, which looks correct from what I have seen.

Or

Can the parentage be correct, i.e. born in Germany, with German Father and Swedish Mother.

This is based on what

Code: Select all

As stated by ca.funke;
•If the father resided "legally" in Germany before they got married, the child is automatically German.

was saying

Why would they say one thing and show something else

Cheers

[CR001]

It would likely depend on how the person obtained Russian citizenship. Russia does not allow dual citizenship.

Only the person will know why the stories don't tally, there might be some information that you likely are not privvy to in relation to this person. How are we suppose to know or guess and it is hardly an immigration related query.

[Clive_F]

Thanks for your help